@Las Malvinas son Argentinas Very good point about him saying it wasn't negotiable. Didn't even put that together. As you state makes a very strong case for extortion. Also probably very wise not to hire a lawyer. I priced a few but in the end I think we all kind of feel like there isn't any point right now.
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened 11530 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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vienne
I want to see how many patrons he loses after November 2nd, when Patreon updates. I hope it's fifty, but realistically it will be 10-12.
This discussion trails off topic, repeats its self and contains some not so brilliant comments, but I think it's extremely valuable. Evans deserves to crash and burn. And those discovering him for the first time need to know "what sort of man" he is.
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DerekMoors
@Vienne
I think it's also vital that we let Lloyd know that no one is going to go away this time. I've seen some other xJW voices drop off after he's ground them into powder and that's a shame.
He also needs to understand the full gravity of what he's done this time. Arguing and bullying are one thing but frequent use of prostitutes, while married, and in Thailand? Yes that's the millionth time I've said it but it bears repeating until he understands the gravity of his actions, stops doing it, apologizes to everyone he's betrayed by pretending to advocate for CSA victims at the same time, and turns over a new leaf altogether.
Since we all know Armageddon will come before that happens, I say keep going. This isn't a minor disagreement between activists. He literally made use of the human trafficking trade and acted like it was no big deal, and attacked people who called him out on it. Disgusting.
While I'm at it, hey Lloyd. How was your weekend? Hopefully as miserable as I'm sure you've made your wife's life over the years.
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vienne
Derek, I agree.
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Vintage
I subscribed to Shelise Ann Sola's YouTube channel (see page 615). It was smart of her to listen to Wally.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
Where did you find out about the “private prosecutor” procedure?It’s on the court website:
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Vintage
Ok. Thanks, LMsA. Is there an easy link to the page? Can only the defendants and the "private prosecutor" access the case itself?
Should we all begin referring to JLE as the "private prosecutor"?
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
Vintage:
Kim Silvio started a thread about the court case and the link is in the OP:
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JeffT
Your accountant showing up again.
I don't know anything about the Croatian legal system, I know a lot about how the US legal system deals with debts and torts.
In the US it is common practice (frequently involving smaller amounts of money) to send a "demand letter' outlining the nature of the problem and the proposed cure. Example "Your kid threw a rock through my window and did five hundred dollars damage, invoice for the repair included. Please pay this amount within thirty days to avoid further action." This puts the defendant on notice, if the case goes to court the plaintiff can point out they made a reasonable effort to settle the problem outside the courts.
I think this letter should be read as a demand letter not a threat. It is poorly worded (a good lawyer would try to sound friendlier) but otherwise not that far off the mark. One telling factor is the low ball statement of damages. In the US $3K (or whatever it was) is chump change, a matter for small claims court. No lawyer with brains is going to give up the big money coming out of the starting gate.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
Example "Your kid threw a rock through my window and did five hundred dollars damage, invoice for the repair included. Please pay this amount within thirty days to avoid further action."
But this is a tangible amount, i.e. something that can be proven that the plaintiff actually lost in cash value as a direct result of the respondent’s actions. Lloyd is setting an arbitrary amount that he wants in cash in order for HIM to consider this case as settled. There is no proof of these damages and the only way this is ever proven is in discovery where he has to open his books and point to a specific loss and try to blame it on this tweet or that forum post. Good luck with that.
This puts the defendant on notice, if the case goes to court the plaintiff can point out they made a reasonable effort to settle the problem outside the courts.
He’s not doing this in “good faith” nor is it reasonable. I’m sure his lawyers did advise him to send out demand letters in order to demonstrate to the court he was willing to settle. But what his lawyers didn’t account for was the fact that their client is a dipshit who after the fact, posted on social media that this was never a negotiation and he was getting the arbitrary amount HE set or else. This invalidates most if not all of that gesture.
It’s an age-old maxim that you always ask for more than what you’d accept. If this was done in good faith, for example imagine if someone countered with taking the content down and he came back with “take it down and apologise”. Now that’s an actual negotiation done in good faith. Instead he’s saying “no I want the money” which is a bit of a red flag for the court as to his motivation.
I’ve been involved in civil litigation before and the court’s primary concern is coming to a compromise that is fair to both parties.
Add in the fact that most of the alleged defamation is directly culled from his livestream, why should anyone settle with him? I wouldn’t even take the content down, let alone pay him. He’s only trying what he’s always done which is bully people into deleting everything, shutting up and going away.
One telling factor is the low ball statement of damages
He asked for €3000 from Jonathan Burger, Cappytan, Altworldly, JW Beliefs Discussed, and €8000 from the rest. €8000 is hardly a King’s ransom but it’ll definitely be missed and I know for a fact that in more than a few cases it was outright impossible for the “defendant” to pay. His total damages he was asking for was €56,000.
As my algebra teacher always used to say, “show your work”. That’s a shit tonne of money to pay a guy who got drunk on a livestream and admitted to nearly everything Kim said. I still remember thinking “is this real? Does he know he can’t ever take this back?”
€56,000 in damages requires a lot of disclosure that he’s in no way ever going to allow for the simple fact that it would prove how much he’s been fleecing this community. €56,000? That’s more than what most of his patrons earn in a year.
The court exists for justice for all parties, not to act as a bill collector for Jabba the Hutt.