Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand 90 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  LoveUniHateExams

  you have been a JW? - of course I have. Officially, I still am.

  You've genuinely never met any sisters who have expressed feelings like: "headship is a wise arrangement", "men have leadership qualities whereas woman can empathise", "Jehovah is a God of order, in the family and the congregation" - yeah, I have. But surely there utterances are heavily influenced by cult bullsh1t. Surely you're not suggesting otherwise?!

  Invoking women being stoned to death is a bit weird so I don't know what to say about that or how it relates - well, that's reality in some parts of the world, me duck.

  So, I asked you to give an example of a patriarchal system that women favour over equality and you came up with the WTS?

  Really?!
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  Laika

  Whilst I think wealth and career opportunities are good measures to demonstrate that there is still inequality in the West, I think an even more obvious one is the fact that women are not as safe as men, much more likely to suffer violence or harassment in their homes, work place and in general, which are all good reasons for a feminist movement to continue to exist.
  I wonder if the JW brand of patriarchy tends to lead to higher rates of domestic violence then the national averages? I'm not sure there's been any studies on that, though I know it's been well documented on here that JWs are very poor at protecting women and children from the abusers who do exist.
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  TD

  LoveUniHateExams

  some women do genuinely prefer a patriarchal system - no example given.

  I can post examples (From a marriage relationship forum) where a Catholic woman argues that male headship is the natural order of things and becomes angry and insulting when any man dares to suggest that marriage should be a union between two peers. It's actually quite frustrating to have your manhood questioned simply because you believe in equality.
  

  Patriarchy has benefits for women as well as drawbacks - I've yet to come across this 'honest' appraisal of the patriarchy.

  You could start with Is There Anything Good About Men? by Roy Baumeister. I don't agree with everything he says, but he does make some good points. Wading through three feet of human excrement at a sewage treatment plant is a, "male" job and will likely always be a male job. Women apparently have better sense than to sell their lives and dignity this short...
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  I can post examples - please do, in truncated form if possible.

  Are you seriously arguing that we should allow for the fact that some Catholic women prefer the male headship thingy over equality? Surely we should say equality is better than the Catholic headship thingy and here's why ...

  SBF said this: I think we need to allow for the experience that some women do genuinely prefer a patriarchal system - and I thoroughly disagree. We DON'T need to allow for those experiences.

  You could start with Is There Anything Good About Men? by Roy Baumeister - I'll level with ya, I can't be arsed to read crap about the patriarchy. Pls post any salient quotes.
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  TD

  LoveUniHateExams7 minutes ago

  
  

  I can post examples - please do, in truncated form if possible.

  I'm willing to do that provided you're not going to move the goalposts. You said that no examples were given. I volunteered to give one and you seem to be preemptively dismissing it before I've even given it as the opinion of only one woman and therefore of little consequence.

  Before I quote her, I'm going to preemptively backtrack and cite the work from which this woman draws her views. She is a disciple of David Deida, author of the book, The Way of the Superior Man. Deida holds a view as patriarchal as C.T. Russell himself, and maintains that women are essentially irrational creatures who can't be entrusted with power in a relationship. Male/Female relationships therefore work best under a paternalistic rather than a democratic model. (I'm paraphrasing here, but the book is easily available in pdf form for you to read and form your own opinion.)

  I'll level with ya, I can't be arsed to read crap about the patriarchy. Pls post any salient quotes.

  I've already posted the gist of his argument farther up this thread. Patriarchal systems benefit a very tiny handful of men at the very top of the food chain, while reducing the vast majority to a level lower than dirt. It was young men, for example, that General Haig was marching into German machine guns by the millions and the resultant carnage is a matter of history.
  
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  TD

  LHG,
  

  All in all, the Witness religion is a very damaging place for a woman.

  Yes.... The thought of one of my daughters trapped in this religion gives me the shivers even today....(There is no possible way it could happen at this point, but the fear is still very real. ---Funny how that works..)
  
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  slimboyfat

  Some women are drawn to such systems. (JWs, Mormons, evangelicals, fascism, Isis, whatever) Clearly most are not, if given the choice, especially in modern liberal democracies.

  We are all "influenced". To say women who are drawn to patriarchal systems are being "influenced" doesn't seem to be saying very much.

  Stoning is a reality but I don't see it has much to do with what I am talking about. At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious of course nobody wants to be stoned to death.

  What I learned from reading Erich Fromm is that giving up freedom has its attractions, whether that be in relation to politics, gender relations, religion or whatever. There are always pluses and minuses.

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Freedom
  
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  Luther bertrand

  I cam curious if anyone noticed that the main contributors to this conversation are males?
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  sparrowdown

  LB - maybe you should have titled this thread " what men think women want"
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  Xanthippe

  I cam curious if anyone noticed that the main contributors to this conversation are males?

  Oh yes. Also try being a woman on some of these threads and say something interesting only to be ignored. Then watch one of the men steal what you've said and repeat it almost word for word and see some of the other men join in and tell him what a great guy he is to raise that valuable point.

  LB - maybe you should have titled this thread " what men think women want''

  Lol at sparrowdown. Says it all.