Do you think the big A will come after Russia invades Ukraine?

by Iamallcool 54 Replies latest jw friends

  • TD
    TD

    But in most respects I don't think like an ancient Jew and that might explain why I am puzzled that Rome and Dema Roma were thought of as being whores by ancient Jews.

    The ancient Jews had horrible attitudes towards women. The portrayal of the misdeeds of a nationality as the activities of an unchaste woman is actually a recurring theme in Judaism. You're familiar with the sexual escapades of Oholah and Oholibah (Samaria and Israel respectively) in Ezekiel?

    Denigrating foreign deities and their visual representations was also common in Judaism and that crosses over into the Bible as well. To me, it's not surprising at all that the two would come together, because it would not be the only example of its type.

    My purpose in posting the image of the coin was only to show that the motifs are echoed in Revelation. She's clearly seated upon the seven hills of Rome (cf. Rev 17:9) with her feet at the edge of the Tiber (cf. 17:15) just as she's described

    There is nothing in that depiction to suggest unchastity and I am puzzled that you seem to be looking for clues for it. The viewpoints of the Romans (Who minted the coin) and the Jews (Who hated Rome) are diametrically opposed and you're not going to find evidence of the Jewish viewpoint on a Roman coin.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Thanks TD, those are excellent points and clarifications you made. You are right about me being "familiar with the sexual escapades of Oholah and Oholibah (Samaria and Israel respectively) in Ezekiel". I vaguely had those examples mind, as well as having others in mind, when I wrote the following. "... I know that the Bible (in words attributed to Yahweh) sometimes figuratively described worship of other gods as acts of fornication (in a spiritual sense) and I think some prophetic books of the OT Bible sometimes referred to the nations of Israel and/or other nations as prostitutes".

    I moment ago I opened up the 1963 large print edition (Student's Edition) of NWT at random and read a passage therein at random. It was the one about a mother and a prostitute who had each given birth to a son, and in which the prostitute's son died. The two women claimed the same living son as theirs, etc. I'm sure you remember that story. That story is appalling in regards to the prostitute saying to cut the baby boy in half, but it was very loving that the mother of the son said to keep the boy alive, saying to give it to the other woman instead of killing the boy. Whether the story is a real story or not, it is true in the sense of accurately reflecting the cultural views and values (and human nature) of the ancient Jews. What it depicts of many of the Jews is appalling.

    I then randomly flipped to another page in the Bible and I read a portion of a story of chiefs accompanied by 50 men taking turns approaching Elijah and appealing to him. In response Elijah called down fire from Jehovah upon those men, and the fire came down and killed them, except for the last group that approached Elijah. The passage said the deaths were due the men being sent "to inquire of Ba'al-ze'bub the god of Ek'ron" (see 2 Kings chapter one). That story of brutally by God (and by a request to God by a prophet of God) is appalling to me.

    The OT portion of the Bible has so many abhorrent passages of people (Jew and non-Jew) deliberately causing harm, even death, to other humans - as well as Jehovah doing such to Jew and non-Jew. The idea of people being killed for worshiping a god other than Jehovah, or engaging in some other kind of religion (one deemed false by some worshipers of Jehovah), is something totally against the values that are stated in the first amendment of the USA Constitution.

    The framers of that amendment learned from the history of Europeans having numerous wars with each other about each other's religions. They also learned from the history of wars between Christians and Muslims over the matter of religion. Furthermore, they also learned from the history of persecutions of various sects withing individual nations, and even within some of the British colonies in America. The framers of the 1st Amendment to the USA Constitution were much more enlightened than the ancient writers of the OT Bible and than many of the other peoples who were living in ancient biblical times.

    The framers of the amendment guaranteed freedom of religion (even of deism), with those rights being extended to all branches and sects of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and to all other religions. As result in our day people can worship any god (or goddess, or spirit, or human) they imagine (provided their practice doesn't harm other people). They can worship Baal if they want, or Zeus, or Ishtar, or even Satan if they want. In modern times the amendment is also interpreted to mean that people have the freedom to have no religion and to not worship at all. The vast majority of people in our time in the USA do not kill or violently attack each other over the practice (or non-practice) of religion - and the people of the USA are not being attacked by Jehovah God. We (not just people in the USA and most other countries, but even in Islamic nations) are so much more tolerant, so much more liberal, of people's religious practices, than the Bible portrays the ancient Israelites and Jews (and Jehovah) as being.

    The USA (and many other countries with similar laws guaranteeing freedom of religion) are thriving. Many of the values of the OT Bible are outdated and now recognized by many as being wrong. Human society today is so much more liberal/tolerant and hence so much more civil (and so much less barbaric, though the weapons of today are far more dangerous) and so much better, than that which existed in biblical times.

    There will be no battle of Armageddon in the biblical sense - no mass slaughter of people by Jehovah God or Jesus Christ or other alleged heavenly spirit beings. The WT and JWs are wrong in teaching there will be a battle of Armageddon and a destruction by God and Christ (and by JWs who claim to be the anointed of Jehovah to rule with Christ in heaven) of the human governments of the USA and of all other human governments, and of people who practice what the WT calls false religion. Much of what the Bible teaches as good and right is actually very bad.

    I need to somehow kick the habit of reading religious literature (both WT literature and other religious literature). I wish I hadn't been raised as a JW or even as a Christian in general, except for being taught most of the basic teachings on morals and ethics.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Update to my prior post: According to the account, in regards to the last chief who approached Elijah, his king was killed by Jehovah (though not by means of fire being sent down from heaven), or perhaps Jehovah merely chose not to heal the king from his great fall through the grating of his roof chamber - 2 Kings 1:16-17 and 1:2-8.

  • Gman2001
    Gman2001

    no....JW fantasy

  • blondie
    blondie

    Matthew 24:44, I used this scripture whenever some eager jw came up to me about 1975. I would think jws would be wary of thinking current events prove the end is here. If you believe it is here, you are wrong, it is coming when you don't expect it per Jesus, the person they claim to believe in the bible

    Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

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