Has anyone looked at the local churches in their area and seen pagan and freemason symbols both inside and outside. I am not a JW but at least they don't seem to follow this trend. Why do "Christians" wear a symbol of torture and death ? ( the Cross) If Jesus was killed by a shotgun would we be wearing or worshipping that? The local Anglican church has a Celtic cross ( I'm sure this is way older than the Christianity) and gargoyles over the windows and doors. Does the bible say to worship images made of wood, stone or metal? Or to see Mary as a goddess ? Most world religions have a Mary and child type god so this is just another pagan part of mainstream Christianity. No wonder the JWs, WWCOG and its many splinters, Christadelphian and others attract so many followers. There is no Christian sect that truly follows the bible. All have error in their teaching and all are money making businesses. ( think of the money lenders and stalls in the temple that Jesus went off at) Would any Christian give away everything to someone in need as Jesus did? Think about these points, if anyone thinks the above is ok then they are just as brainwashed as the JWs.
Why do most Christians churches have masonic and/or pagan symbols?
by kabwell 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Saintbertholdt
Hi there kabwell,
"Has anyone looked at the local churches in their area and seen pagan and freemason symbols both inside and outside."
Freemasonry has actually adopted many Christian symbols over the centuries. For example:
The Cross and Crown (Used in the early days of the Bible students)
Eye of Providence (Comes from the time of the renaissance representing the trinity)
That is also why there is a Bible on the altar of most masonic lodges.
Why do "Christians" wear a symbol of torture and death?
The symbol of the naked cross indicates the triumph of Jesus over death. That is why it is depicted as being empty. It therefore primarily serves as a symbol of victory and not of torture.
Most world religions have a Mary and child type god so this is just another pagan part of mainstream Christianity.
The veneration of a female deity is as you pointed out very old. One has to remember that the Bible is also full of this type of imagery. In Revelations the Bride of Christ and the woman giving birth in the desert features strongly and has given the impetus to Christianity for its usage.
Would any Christian give away everything to someone in need as Jesus did?
Some have I guess.
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tim3l0rd
Recently someone posted their reasoning about the cross and I had never looked at it from that viewpoint.
Here's the post. Below is the reasoning that I found interesting and understandable.
We then went into the subject of the Cross. David raised the objection that the biggest issue he had with Christians is that they "Worship the cross"
This is when I chimed in. I said "David, whenever you have faith involved, there are always symbols representing the object of faith. Take for example the Watchtower. You have a "Symbol" of a Watchtower on that magazine, would it be unfair for me to say that you Worship a watchtower simply because of the symbol?"
...."Well...we don't worship a Watchtower!"
.."I agree, I suspect that this Watchtower Symbol is used to represent keeping on the Watch for Gods Kingdom, in the same way the Cross is for Christians. Its symbolic of Christ Death, burial and resurrection, conquering death and giving salvation to all who believe. Notice that Jesus isn't on the cross, he is absent from it. This is symbolic of his victory over death. So its not the cross we worship at all. Its a symbol of our salvation. Now this is not to say some Christians make a talisman out of an object, to this I would agree that it would be wrong to make this symbol into something its not. But its quite another thing to broad brush every Christian who has a cross as somebody who worships it."
..." Well its still an issue because this was a death instrument, would you wear a symbol of a gun if your best friend was murdered by one?"
.." Ok, the only issue is Christians don't see the cross as a torture device primarily, its a symbol of Atonement, the very place where your sins were paid for. So its a symbol of victory and salvation. Its not murder since Jesus voluntarily went to the cross" -
Vanderhoven7
"Why do "Christians" wear a symbol of torture and death ? ( the Cross)"
Hopefully it is for the same reason the apostle Paul would not glory in anything other than the cross.
The cross speaks clearly of two things:
1. the horror of our sin
2. the love of the Father for us
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kabwell
The cross is a pagan symbol that predates Christianity. The OT has its origins in other cultures. Christianity is just a pagan religion mixed with a few made up stories -
carla
Welcome to the forum!
Most jw's do have issue with a cross- here is a portion from a previous post from a poster named Saved_JW. You can find the post here- http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5066993388486656/discussion-pioneer
(You say you are not a jw but your language suggests otherwise, just my opinion, my apologies if that is not correct. Perhaps you have been one in the past?)
From the post about the cross-
"We then went into the subject of the Cross. David raised the objection that the biggest issue he had with Christians is that they "Worship the cross"
This is when I chimed in. I said "David, whenever you have faith involved, there are always symbols representing the object of faith. Take for example the Watchtower. You have a "Symbol" of a Watchtower on that magazine, would it be unfair for me to say that you Worship a watchtower simply because of the symbol?"
...."Well...we don't worship a Watchtower!"
.."I agree, I suspect that this Watchtower Symbol is used to represent keeping on the Watch for Gods Kingdom, in the same way the Cross is for Christians. Its symbolic of Christ Death, burial and resurrection, conquering death and giving salvation to all who believe. Notice that Jesus isn't on the cross, he is absent from it. This is symbolic of his victory over death. So its not the cross we worship at all. Its a symbol of our salvation. Now this is not to say some Christians make a talisman out of an object, to this I would agree that it would be wrong to make this symbol into something its not. But its quite another thing to broad brush every Christian who has a cross as somebody who worships it."
..." Well its still an issue because this was a death instrument, would you wear a symbol of a gun if your best friend was murdered by one?"
.." Ok, the only issue is Christians don't see the cross as a torture device primarily, its a symbol of Atonement, the very place where your sins were paid for. So its a symbol of victory and salvation. Its not murder since Jesus voluntarily went to the cross"-end of quote from post.
By the way, do you or would you wear a wedding ring? did your bride or if you ever get married would you allow the bride to wear a veil? a wedding dress? would you go on a honeymoon? Do you have issue with the days of the week? they are pagan as well, look up how they came to be. Same with the months,those are just a sampling of pagan things. Pagan symbols are all around us on a daily basis that doesn't mean they hold any meaning for people today. Nor should they be thought of as having magical powers or as a tailsman.
I wear a cross but I do not 'worship' a cross, maybe you can tell us what you consider 'worship'? I do not know any Christians who 'worships' a cross and the Catholics I know do not 'worship' crosses either.
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carla
oh sorry, somebody already beat me to the post! took me awhile due to it being Sat and that means someone was getting ready for fs and I don't leave this site up while they do that. -
kabwell
I am not a JW I am a sceptic with a touch of conspiracy belief. I do collect watchtower books etc for their historical interest. I have a library of many thousands of books on religion, history, politics, ufos, conspiracy and bibles. I have bibles worth thousands of dollars each. But I do see the jws as well as other cults closer to the teachings in the NT then most of the protestant and catholic sects
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carla
Oh, you know what my jw would say about you? you are a jw at heart and truly believe but you just don't want to submit and be loyal to jah, you don't have enough discipline and you just don't want to give up your sinful lifestyle (pick any "sin" here).
I'm not saying that, just saying what a typical jw might say.
But welcome to the forum and stick around, there are many interesting folks here.
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kabwell
Hi thanks for the welcome, I find the JWs fascinating and would love to join just to see their mindset