Losing Salvation

ClassAvenger

I witnessed to a JW and he accepted that salvation comes through faith only, and the works come later showing that you are a saved person. But he continiously argues that salvation can be lost according to our behavior. What do you all say about this?

sens

But he continiously argues that salvation can be lost according to our behavior.

I had this explained to me once like this...

If your child made mistakes in his\her life would you love him or her anyless? No.

So its my belief , this is the same situation with God.

They dont think like this though...everything is based on how active you are in the 'truth' and etc...

3 Sens 4

A Paduan

They dont think like this though

They certainly don't - in the same way as they would dump their own children who don't tow the line - and who never become quite their equal - hence the demotion of Jesus.

paduan

FreeToBeMe

Being saved from the need for salvation (lol@myself) I can see an error commonly made by most who claim 'christianity' in regard to an opinion on faith. Faith is a concept and like other concepts of, for example, value, freedom and consciousness, is not open to the same empirical analysis and measurement attached to more tangible subjects, for example, distance. If one accepts that faith exists, then there is no rational need to measure it, or for that matter to ascribe a value to faith based upon how much effort is expounded (e.g. according to JW logic a JW pioneer has stronger faith than the JW crippled in bed with arthuritis.) In my opinion, the need to measure or otherwise quantify faith says more about the person who supports that view than the idea of faith itself. There also exists the problem of defining 'works' without which according to St.James 'faith is dead.' JW logic lends itself to defining works purely as observable behaviour recorded on time cards. I await the GB spies who peruse these forums reporting back to Brooklyn, and Brooklyn then redefining 'works' as the result of some 'new light.' Maybe they have done already; I've been away a while.

blondie

If Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, salvation is the free gift the Bible says it is. Nothing you can do makes you worthy of it because we are all still sinners. The ransom covers over our sins, not our deeds.

Blondie

mouthy

Once a fleshly birth=life!
Once a spiritual birth=life!

Can you lose that promise? No!!!
You can lose your glasses & find them again-you can throw them away because YOU dont want them anymore!!!They are gone!!!
So you can also throw away the spiritual life_ free choice!!!!-you dont want it anymore!!!
But you cant lose it! maybe you THINK you have lost it! but it is there somewhere!
Just have to ask the Mediator= JESUS! To help you find it.......

OUCH!!!!That rock hurt....

blondie

Very good, mouthy. That's right, no one takes it away, we throw it away.

Pretty profound thought for a fading JW to read on a Sunday morning.

No rocks from me, Blondie.

czarofmischief

I firmly believe that if there is even a speck of good left in you, God can find it and WILL drag it out of you, whether you want to or not.

If, however, you have corrupted yourself to the point where "all your thoughts are bad all the time," then God can get disgusted with you and kill you.

I think we have much less control, and yet much more, than most people think.

CZAR

COMF

My salvation came, neither through works nor faith, but rather when I accepted that there isn't any omniscient father-figure who will leave a single set of footprints while carrying me through my hard times, and that my wellbeing is set and maintained solely through developments that happen within this skin.

JCanon

If Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, salvation is the free gift the Bible says it is. Nothing you can do makes you worthy of it because we are all still sinners. The ransom covers over our sins, not our deeds.

This is not correct and the topic is a little complex. But if you just step back to the basics I think you can understand how God looks at it. And that is, what if Adam had children before he sinned? Then what? There would be no need for the ransom sacrifice or any of that.

But...still, would God have just granted anybody life no matter what they did? Or were there requirements?

Thus basically, all that Christ's sacrifice did was remove what was inherited by Adam, but it doesn't wipe out personal choice, say to join Satan or rebel against God, which would result in loss of the prize of eternal life.

But distinguishing how much the influence of outside factors, such as Satan and the imperfect world and our imperfect nature has is the task of "JUDGMENT DAY". All those factors will be considered and then a judgment made if a person would have qualified for life or not.

So when considering salvation one must include the many other references in scriptures that show that some "unrighteous" people will be destroyed, or that even what one speaks will be held accountable to them on judgment day.

Christ's ransom sacrifice just gives man the right to get back in the game on an even playing field, it doesn't give permission to sin without punishment. Adam was perfect and still got the death penalty. Christ didn't die for "willful" sinners.

JCanon

Losing Salvation

Share this