Some Arguments Just Can't be Won. . . (page 3)

happyout

SP,

Having just bowed out of a thread like that, I know exactly what you mean. In my case, often it's a simple matter of wanting people to realize when they are being, at the least, judgemental. Not that their opinion is going to change, but at least recognize that they want to impose a very personal opinion on other people. One of my goals in life is to have my own ideas and opinions, while recognizing that others have the same right.

I think there are those capable of debating well, without resorting to name calling, but unfortunately those cases are few and far between. And to often, discussions can turn into rude innuendos and off topic rhetoric.

On the other hand, wouldn't life (and this board) be quite boring without some of the passionate opinions expressed?

Happyout

Abaddon

Do you want to argue about that STinky?

Hell, I don't expect to win; some people like tennis, I like arguing.

I'm also well aware of the non-resolvability of two points of views generated by two different paradigms, as what are valid pints to one person are irrlevent to the other and vica-versa

Having said that, I used to think the homocide rate in the USA was due to too many guns; I now know it's for cultural reasons, but no-one wants to discuss what they are.

I also now know weak points in standard evolutionary theory, but no creationists seem to know what they are, so I can't discuss them.

I also used to agree with the death penalty, but a very pursuasive women changed my mind.

And I can recall at least one thread where you standard objectionable homophobe actually read and thought about what people said and said they had had their eyes opened.

So, it's a fun past-time and I know peoples' minds can be changed, even if it's only sometimes

drwtsn32

BTW, Coke is better.

Carmel

How do I feel about Gays? Frankly, stinky, I've never felt one or about one so couldn't tell you how!

caveman

frenchbabyface

Ok … wanted STOP READING a BIT and say something … and the title of the topic IS OK for me to introduce this message into this post.

First to (((ALL of YOU ))) I decided to not post for a few days, BUT I’M READING You

Some postes are a bit long … but some really needed it

Some began just by a question and brings some topics very far trought questioning or arguing and relevant arguements, event when we can't state on a case …

I’ve found lots of serious PIECES OF WORK (Quality) in their : Feelings, Questionings, Efficiency Communication and Pleasures of sharing and searching togother for everyone)

BASICALLY I think that … YES …we are “ABLE** ” to TALK FREELY HERE – About everything depends on who/when/what/why …) IN KNOWING that EVERYONE is still and will stay HIM … But won’t loose the information he needs or had missed since now : Cause everybody express themselves for real even if it's in the wrong way (and for different reasons … in different ways), everybody is able to change nor balance is point of view on facts nor through questionings. (THAT WHAT I'VE OBSERVED HERE anyway *** means it is possible)

Kisses : to All of YOU

*** “IT’S NOT A DREAM”

StinkyPantz

Six-

I've changed my position on almost everything you listed, and while alot of it had to do with changing religion, and then just letting the kind me come out, seeing well articulated arguments helped very much.

This is SO me!

I guess I worded my original post improperly. I do think though that more often than not, when we reach adulthood, many if not most of our ideas are pretty concrete and extremely hard to change. We could argue all day and night and nobody's opinion changes.

proplog2

Truth is what can be defended. The process is "argumentation".

Unfortunately most people feel they already have the truth and so they don't argue in good faith.

To argue in good faith means that you are looking for the most defensible position possible at the present time.

If we are really interested in finding the truth we must be willing to assume that we may not now have the truth and be willing to listen to the defenses of alternative positions and encourage criticism of our own arguments.

If this isn't done there isn't going to be much "truth" changing hands.

Some here are expressing the view that "moral" arguments can never reach a conclusion. This view is false. Moral arguments have "moral premises" and "moral conclusions".

The problem with moral arguments is when people jump from a "factual" claim to a "moral claim". You can only move from a factual claim to a factual claim or a general moral principle to some more specific moral claim.

There are rules and codes of conduct for good argumentation and we all would do better if we learned these rules and applied them.

Carmel

PEPSI!

CAVEMAN

teejay

If "winning" -- i.e. getting someone to change their position and adopt ours -- is the only reason a person participates in a discussion, then you're right. Their objective is very likely to be unfruitful.

"Winning" is not the only reason for participating, though, as others have pointed out. Then, too, there is more than one way to "win" an argument. :D

StinkyPantz

Prop-

Very good post!

If we are really interested in finding the truth we must be willing to assume that we may not now have the truth and be willing to listen to the defenses of alternative positions and encourage criticism of our own arguments.

Truer words have rarely been spoken. Often when I enter an argument I just want the person to see my side! Don't change your mind, just understand my POV & I will attempt to give you the same courtesy.

Happyout-

In my case, often it's a simple matter of wanting people to realize when they are being, at the least, judgemental.

You often say exactly what I am thinking. Thanks!

Some Arguments Just Can't be Won. . .

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