SP, aren't you too cute to be starting threads about such serious topics anyways? ;)
Some Arguments Just Can't be Won. . .
by StinkyPantz 75 Replies latest jw friends
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Fe2O3Girl
I very rarely participate in the controversial subject areas, although I usually read through them. The gladitorial style of debate here just isn't my style. I am interested in other peoples opinions, and I don't feel the need to mock and berate other people to justify my opinions. Besides which, Abbadon always seems to have the same opinion as me, and he expresses himself so well I can leave him to it.
Mind you Stinkypantz and I once had a civil and calm discussion on the death penalty on this board. So some of us can debate without ripping each other new ones.
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stillajwexelder
Hamas wrote: Personally, I don't have a problem with gays I used to be a big homophobe, and still show signs of it today; but only falling into that big 'i'm a male' trap. In saying that, to be honest, I wish there wasn't one gay guy on this planet, and the whole idea didn't exist. Thats just me.
I think the opposite -- I wish 90% of the planets males were gay and only 1% of the females were -- that would leave loads of women for me -- I know that is being greedy -- but women are wonderful and it would be my idea of paradise
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obiwan
[email protected] little brat!
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tinkerbell82
like i could really be expected not to say it obiwan...you know i had to :-P
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Phantom Stranger
Maybe we all need to get together and watch Monty Python? "I'd like to have an argument, please!"
But seriously, I think Simon's right, and I think the Pythons were right. An argument is not an automatic disagreeing - it's communicating your position. If all we can do is name-call and attack, we're not communicating, we're ranting or preaching or... well, name-calling.
Communication has been defined as not what happens when you talk (or type), but what happens when you talk and the other person really "gets" what we're saying. Until they "get" it, you haven't communicated - and the communicator has to take a lot of responsibility for that. Saying it louder or more vehemently really doesn't enhance most persuasive attempts.
I suspect that XJW's, myself included, are trained to take positions and defend them, and it takes conscious effort to leave that model behind and be mobile.
Isn't danger defined militarily as a narrowing of options? The more we take a position, the less we can learn. It's like the Zen proverb - if you want more tea in a cup that is full, first you have to pour some out.
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Francois
Like you said, some things by their very nature cannot be agreed upon nor compromised. Take abortion for instance. There is just no compromise available here, no halfway between. Either you will allow it or you won't. However, I will never understand the mentality that kills to stop the killing; and then if you kill to stop the killing and the state catches you, it will kill you to stop your killing. Nice.
On another topic, please tolerate me while I object to a word manufactured & designed to divide and inflame: homophobe and all its forms. I detest the word for the reasons noted. Most anti-gays I know aren't afraid at all no matter what all the gays on the planet might get together and opine. It's just not a fair nor correct word. These people may not like gays because "their bible tells them to" or because they realize they'll never have grandchildren or for some other similiar reason, but not because they're "threatened in their manhood," or any other such foolishness. The word is merely a taunt and was designed to be just so. I think the gay community should drop it.
There's enough to argue about to keep the world at war for another thousand generations; I give you the middle east - exhibit A. I believe we should be about finding things to agree with each other about before we kill each other off over trivial disagreements.
francois
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Mindchild
What? You are saying some arguments can't be won?
Sure they can...don't you have a good reference on torture and brain washing? Actually, it can be torture watching some people get into flame wars and rabid dog arguements here on the board (whew! thanks for the moderators for keeping this to a minimum) but I've always found it at least interesting that those individuals displaying the most emotional aggression typically make fools out of themselves when they start foaming at the mouth.
You see, we all have Ego protective mechanisms in our minds, and when we feel ourselves threatened by something, we typically launch an vigorus emotional counterattack. I find the more unfounded in facts that a belief happens to be...the more aggressive the offense that individual shows. I've seen some arguements on this board where people are on the verge of having a paradigmatic breakdown and they have to leave before they lose any control they have and subcome to emotional flooding. In other words, they lose it.
I've always looked at it this way, if you know you are right about something, do you find yourself infuriated over someone else's statements or opinions? Are you compelled to try to change that person's beliefs? Do you resort to emotional reactions and mind games in arguing your point? If these happen to you, maybe you don't have any real basis for your belief and just have a mind virus instead.
Nothing wrong with arguing your points, and it can be especially fun with a lot of the intelligent and funny posters on this board. While people can change their views on things, they need to be open to change, and in a non-threatening friendly enviornment. Er, of course there is always the electroshock treatment, drugs, whips, and needles under the fingernails if that doesn't work. hehe
Skipper (who only argues when he knows he can win class)
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oldcrowwoman
Mountain Dew myself
OCW
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Country_Woman
But to discus various matters give a lot of understanding.