Do you believe in free will? (page 3)

LittleToe

Can there be such a thing as "free" will, when we work under so many constraints (e.g. how we were nurtured, and the environment we currently live in with it's social mores, etc.)?

I suspect we all work under varying degrees of "constrained" will.

Phantom Stranger

why view them as constraints?

It may not be possible, given that fact that I'm nearing 40 and not a fast runner, that I could not get a job as a professional soccer player. But I still have lots of opportunity.

It's kind of like saying a fish has constrained will because it can't walk, isn't it?

LittleToe

PS:
But you ARE constrained from becoming that Football professional, and the fish is most certainly constrained from walking on land, unless it's a lungfish, or something similar.

Would you prefer "limited"? I still prefer "constrained".
I suspect you know what I mean, anyhow, ya pedantic so-n-so

sleepy

Due to my apparent lack of freewill I was just forced to post this.

Phantom Stranger

Just seems like you're focusing on the negative, that's all.

Gravity constrains me, but it doesn't seem to change the discussion ;)

LittleToe

PS:
Maybe it's just the connotations of the word. I didn't mean it in a negative sense at all.
Have you ever felt constrained to do something good for someone?

Gordy

You have to believe in free will, you have no choice.

The only one who has absolute freedom to will is God.All other will has an imposition on it.I agree with most all other opinions expressed and it gets complicated.Simply put,cause and effect play a role on our will to decide,will I be harmed or benefit from the use of my limited free will.

Do I like Jesus succumb to God's absolute free will or do I weigh the consequences,rewards and punishments of the use of so-called free will.

Remember Jesus did not want to have to die! His free will was to not have to do this if there was another way out,yet He knew the rewards and punishments involved and quickly decided to do God's will or else.His free will was limited by what He knew was exacted of Him byGod imposing His absolute will on Jesus.

Blueblades

Phantom Stranger

LT:

con·strain

To compel by physical, moral, or circumstantial force; oblige: felt constrained to object. See Synonyms at force.
To keep within close bounds; confine: a life that had been constrained by habit to the same few activities and friends.
To inhibit or restrain; hold back: “Failing to control the growth of international debt will also constrain living standards”
To produce in a forced or inhibited manner.

I have never felt forced to do something I was choosing to do, no.

BlueBlades:

I find it interesting that you feel that in the Bible story, Jesus did not choose of his own free will to take one for the team, as it were. True, according to the story, it's wasn't his idea... but that doesn't mean it wasn't his choice.

This post originally was about if humans have enough latitude from the tyranny of their biology to have free will.

"Our motivation for doing things good or bad seems to come from a mixture of genes and enviroment, and through a long and complicted process cause us to perform all the actions we experience in life."

The arguments end up being either pragmatic or faith-based - it's not resolvable. There are several arguments as to the benefits of operating in our lives as if we have free will, even if it's not provable.

If you believe that somehow our free will is squeezed out of God's toothpaste tube and has no shape but for Him, or something like that, then there is a great dilemma: How are sins our fault, but our moments of compassion due to God? Seems as if He can't have it both ways. If he gets the credit, I'm giving him the blame too.

<edited to correct fromatting errors pointed out by LT, below>

Phantom Stranger

I meant to reply to LT's comment in more detail, and BB's too.

The only way we can tell that someone is choosing to do something is if they do it. There is always a choice (unless we are physically bound and dragged - and no, I will not accept any "emotional equivalents" here). One of the choices may be death. One of the choices may be the death of someone else. One of the choices may be something we feel we emotionally cannot accept. It's still a choice, and when we tell ourselves that we have no choice, we lessen ourselves. We always have a choice, even if we don't like it. If you believe that your Jesus had no choice, you are cheapening whatever you feel that his life was supposed to have bought.

Peace, out.

PS

Do you believe in free will?

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