Bowling for Columbine

by drwtsn32 81 Replies latest social entertainment

• 

  funkyderek

  You miss my point. MM takes him self seriously, I dont. I dont think other people should either. Even though he probably believes his films are documentaries, they are nothing but fiction.

  Sorry about that. I wasn't sure exactly what way you meant it, but I've heard some people defend Moore on the basis that he's a humourist or satirist and his "facts" aren't meant to be taken seriously. It's clear though, that Moore intends his work to be viewed as fact and not "fictition" (sic).

  I too have been amazed at the way people make excuses for Moore when he obviously engages in deliberate deception. Like you said, some people want justification rather than facts.
• 

  Aztec

  Phantom Stranger,

  "Oh, and Jayson, get gone already, you punk-ass."

  What a jerky thing to say! If you can't defend yourself without resorting to ad hominem attacks that's a bit pathetic.

  Alan,

  "Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

  Lie to me once; take your damn lies somewhere else"

  Tell us how you really feel....

  ~Aztec
• 

  drwtsn32

  Ok, so it sounds like some things were sensationalized in this movie. Anyone know where we can find accurate stats on the number of gun-murders in various countries? (Sorry if it was already mentioned...)

  Assuming the US is leading the pack, Moore did at least get me thinking about the possible reasons why. I think it's interesting nonetheless.
• 

  jelly

  Dr.

  I dont have the stats but America has a huge problem with gun violence. Way larger than any other country, and I dont think its just because our aim is better. Personally, I think it is related to the violent drug trade, and the large use of meth (violence inducing) drugs here in the US. There probably is not any one reason accounting for the whole problem and I really dont know the answer.

  I just think MM has no answers either.

  Terry
• 

  Abaddon

  Homicide rate in USA over time

  http://corporatism.tripod.com/homicide.htm#usmu

  Homicide rates worldwide with breakout of gun/non-gun deaths;

  http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

  The years used in the above table seem a little cherry-picked; these are better but don;t have a gun/non-gun breakout;

  http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb502.pdf

  I think that looking at the massive differnece in prison population between Europe and the USA is illuminating; it is proportionally 7 times higher in the USA. And please realise that the methods of counting violent crime in the UK are the main reason for the huge difference between it and the USA; counting dead bodies is far easier as a dead body is easier to define!

  If one counts serious assaults the figures are rather different (see Killology page below).

  One of the best websites for building up a picture statitically is this;

  And I found this website which is interesting;
• 

  Simon

  I think Bowling for Columbine is a fantastic piece of work if, for not other reason, it has done at least one thing:

  Got people talking about the issue and recognising that it is an issue.

  Awareness is often the first step towards a solution.
• 

  funkyderek

  I think Bowling for Columbine is a fantastic piece of work if, for not other reason, it has done at least one thing:

  Got people talking about the issue and recognising that it is an issue.

  Unfortunately it's got most people thinking they understand the issue, when they don't as they have been presented with a tissue of lies, deceptive stunts and immorally edited footage in the guise of a documentary. It's easy to blame the NRA, which is probably why so many people do.
• 

  Simon

  I don't think anyone can seriously argue that there isn't a problem with gun related violence?

  Whether you agree or disagree with BFC, there has to be consencus (sp) on that.
• 

  blacksheep

  "I don't think anyone can seriously argue that there isn't a problem with gun related violence?

  Whether you agree or disagree with BFC, there has to be consencus (sp) on that."

  So that's what it's reduced to? We know we have a gun problem. So that excuses creating largely fictional film that is cleverly passed off as a documentary? I think we have a problem with rape in this country as well. But I don't think the way to deal with it or to raise awareness of it is via a movie that cleverly slants facts about the reasons for it, and/or unfairly implicates certain well-known people in promoting rape.
• 

  drwtsn32

  Thanks, abaddon, for the links!!