They're turning up the heat

by Winston Smith :>D 46 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Winston Smith :>D
    Winston Smith :>D

    Thank you all for your advice. It is helping me keep a somewhat clear head. And it’s helping me deal with the elders.

    With my wife, things are changing daily, so it’s getting harder for me to follow a plan.

    She & I love each other very much, and I know that the emotions that are dictating her actions are due in a large part to the WTS and the advice she is getting from this Nazi Elder and his wife. They are best of friends with my wife and have known her longer than I have. Moving to another congregation would be great, but it ain’t gonna happen. She has these two here, plus the rest of her ‘friends’.

    So here is the latest. The other night I get home from work and my wife is quiet and visibly upset and starts crying. She wants the ‘old’ husband back. The one that studied, prayed, went out in service, etc. She said that she would have left me years ago if it weren’t for the Troof. It’s the thing that kept us together she said, and now if we don’t have that, she doesn’t know what will happen with us.

    Then she starts firing Q’s at me about what I believe in. I knew that wasn’t going to be productive with the state of mind that she was in. Her defenses were up, and she viewed anything I even slightly hinted at RE questioning the WTS authority as a direct attack on Jehovah.

    She would admit that yes, they make mistakes, but of course the crutch is that they are imperfect.

    Mrs. W: “Who else uses the name Jehovah?”

    Mr. W: “Well, only JW’s.”

    Mrs. W: “Doesn’t that show that we are a chosen people for his name?”

    Mr. W: “Well I’m not sure if were are supposed to use the name Jehovah as much as we do. The WTS freely admits that the ‘restored’ God’s name to the New Testament.”

    Mrs. W: “So, it’s still in the Old Testament and is God’s name, right?”

    Mr. W: “Yes it is. But if God was able to see that his written word was preserved throughout these centuries, even through years when the Catholic Church persecuted people for reading the Bible, how come he couldn’t preserve his name ‘Jehovah’ in the Bible? How come God needed the WTS to add it back into the Bible for him?”

    Mrs. W: “We can’t question how Jehovah works. He does hide things from the haughty and reveals it to the humble.”

    Mr. W: “But is says specifically in the Bible that we are not supposed to add or take anything away from the Bible, but the WTS has done that. Even Paul said that if he or the angels would come and say something different than what they originally taught that the first century Christians were supposed to reject it. Why should we accept the WTS changing words in the Bible?”

    Mrs. W: “No wonder the elders have a hard time talking to you, you are completely unreasonable! You nitpick at the littlest thing and just focus on the negative! What about the fact that we have so many nice people in the organization? People who were once drug addicts, drunkards, and other bad things but have not changed their lives around?!”

    Mr. W: “Well the WTS isn’t the only religion that can turn someone’s life around. We hear of people who were once bad but then turn their life around after they become associated with a religion, or even become born-again [she can’t stand born-again Christians BTW].

    Mrs. W: “You’re impossible! Nothing is ever good enough for you!”

    Mr. W: “Look at how you’re reacting right now. You’re yelling and screaming at me, and I’m talking to you in a calm and collected manner. Who seems to be acting more in line with the fruits of the spirit here? Shouldn’t that tell you something?”

    Mrs. W: “I’m going through depression right now, I can’t help it!”

    It didn’t end on that note. She would say that she doesn’t want to talk about this anymore with me [I didn’t think I should be talking with her either, it didn’t seem to be getting anywhere] and then she’d get up to grab Kleenex, then come back and start asking me more Q’s. It was exhausting.

    The only glimmer of hope was this. During our talking, she said that if I really thought that the WTS was so bad, how come I’m not doing everything I can to get her out?

    I asked her what makes her think that I wasn’t trying to rescue her? She said that it didn’t look like I was ever reading my Bible, that I didn’t study for meetings, or go out in service. If it was her that thought that I was in danger, she said that she would be doing everything that she could to get me out. I told her I was doing everything that I that I could do that she could receive well. And based on how she was reacting that night, there wasn’t much that I could say or do with her. She was much too defensive, which is understandable for a JW. I wanted to grab CoC, or Steve Hassan’s “Releasing the Bonds’ book, but I knew that was a big no-no. To me though it sounded like she was open to hearing something to get her out. That was hopeful for me.

    After 2 hours of that, I wanted to get out for some fresh air and let things settle down. So I told her in a calm manner that I was stepping out for a while and that I’d be back later after things settled down.

    When I came home, she was in bed. The next morning she was acting like nothing ever happened, and even seemed a bit overly nice to me. I come to find out that she went out with the Nazi Elder’s wife, her good buddy, and talked when I was out that night. When I saw this wife at the meeting Sunday, she was so sugary sweet to me it was sickening.

    Now my wife is acting the same way. Waaayyy over the top sugary sweet. Like we are living in Pleasantville.

    It reminds me of Arnold S in the movie ‘Total Recall’. When he is on Mars and the scientist comes in the room telling Arnold’s character that he has to stop the dream. And then Arnold’s wife played by Sharon Stone comes in and talks to Arnold treating him way over the top sugary-sweet asking him to just come back and she misses him, etc.

    How my wife is acting now seems so contrived, like someone does to a new Bible Study when they first come to the KH. My wife and I are generally very affectionate and nice to each other, but how she is now is just waaaayyyyy to creepy. It’s like someone sucked my wife’s brains out and then reprogrammed her. Which, unfortunately is closer to the truth of the matter when one is dealing with the WTS.

    I guess my glimmer of hope is that she may be hinting for some type of information that she can grab on to that will let her start doubting the WTS and to see why I have the Q’s that I do. She makes her decisions based on almost wholly on emotions, not because of some doctrine issue.

    The info and the UN, the house cleaning in 1980, the 607/587 issue, the blood issue, none of these things will make her change her viewpoint. She is drawn to the ‘nice’ people in the organization. That these people are ‘happy’ and can be ‘trusted’. That she knows that Jehovah answers her prayers.

    I’m not sure what to do next. I have to read faster in the ‘Releasing the Bonds’ book to see how to allow herself to Q the cult.

    Best,

    Winston.

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu
    She makes her decisions based on almost wholly on emotions, not because of some doctrine issue.
    She is drawn to the ‘nice’ people in the organization.

    This is EXACTLY why I made the suggestion I did. Women respond better to emotions than facts. This is why guiding her to nice people outside of the organization is a great idea. You need to help her see the other side of the fence, and see that the "world" is not as bad as the WTS makes it out to be. She needs to see this first hand. However, don't tell her directly "Aren't these people nicer than the ones in the cong?" When you talk about worldly people that are becoming good friends, ask her "Aren't they nice people?"

    I'll see if I can find some articles on communication through women with emotions rather than facts.

  • Special K
    Special K

    I'm at at loss for words, Winston.

    I have been following along in your life story, about all this, since you first started posting about it.

    I am one of the lucky ones, although I stopped going to meetings, first.. I never had all these problems with my husband. If he wanted to go, that was fine with me.. or not. It was never a big issue between us.

    He stopped going within 6 months, due to the way the congregation and elders, etc were treating me.

    And then, we were both disfellowshipped at the same time.

    Winston, all of this stuff has to be hard on the head let alone the heart. I'ts soooo frustrating.

    Alot of good information here, however, this last post of yours has me concerned that this will not be a easy fade out. Now your wife is upset about it all and is pressuring you too. That's hard.

    I'm glad Shotgun and yourself are talking. There is no better help than a peer, when it comes to most anything. Someone who has gone or is going through almost the same things, or is experiencing the same feelings.

    Just wish there was something concrete I could say or do for you, Winston........

    Here's a nice caring hug, and I'm thinking about you... (((( WINSTON ))))))

    It feel it is soooo unfair that any religion can put anyone,.. and I mean anyone.. through this..

    Jehovahs Witnesses have proven time and time again what they are good at and that is

    ....TEARING FAMILIES APART... They are not family oriented at ALL. .. It is a FARCE!!

    sincerely

    (and my 8 year old loved the emicons you put up on that fun topic.. he laughed and laughed)

    special k

  • Maverick
    Maverick

    Thanks for the update. I am not going to sugarcoat this my friend, you may lose your wife to the robo-duds! They have a strong hold on her, and will tell her whatever they feel will "save" her from the Devil! Destroying your marriage is a small price to pay to keep her locked in. They are like their father the corporation, heartless, cold, and uncaring. Think this through. In warfare there are causalties, and your marriage may be one of them. Sorry to tell you this. Maverick

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    (((((Winston))))) I'm sorry. Your wife's reaction is not very encouraging. Obviously she is easily influenced, especially in her current mental state. Hang in there, my friend! And accept whatever works out as for the best. Some things just can't be forced. Be yourself and let the Devil take the hindmost, as the Irish say.

    Keep us posted.

    Nina

  • startingover
    startingover

    Winston,

    Your last post is exactly what I am living with. My wife is treating me that same way, especially the part about acting like nothing happened the next day. I sometimes think my wife is just playing the witness unbeliever husband routine, the old "win him over without a word"
    thing. Talking to her becomes so frustrating because she uses the same arguments your wife does. I have basically given up, if she ever figures out what's going on then we'll talk.

  • Panda
    Panda

    Winston, I know there is no way to reason with someone who chooses to remain blind. I'm wondering ...How about a book written by a worldly scholar. Elaine Pagel's Beyond Belief is on the NYT Best Seller list and there are some excellent arguments in there, even some stuff she'll agree with too. She writes about the Nag-Haamadi scrolls which date from the 1st century. A book like that cannot be objectionable. The WTS may even have quaoted from her earlier works. Get it from the library so she won't throw it away. And leave it at home during the day, study it at night with your Bible, or borrow the Josephus book from someone and compare the historical stuff.

    After leaving I began to read more about the 1st century congregation, and it was nothing like what we'd been told. I was so amazed that the GB would so blatantly re-write history to suit them. I was angry and then sad. Sad because there were so many like me who believed whole heartedly the WTS literature.

    Something that bothers me is that Mrs.WInston said she only stayed married to you because of the "truth." That doesn't sound to me like she loves you like you love her. I would ask her about that statement. "what did you mean honey when you said I'm married to you because of the truth?" That would've hurt me to the bone if my husband said that. It was a crass and mean spirited remark, and if true did she lie to you when you got married? Did she marry you just to get out of the house? I'd really jump on that remark of hers and not let go until some explanation comes out.

    I know, bring home dinner for yourself and tell Mrs.Winston that the only reason you ever ate her cooking was because of the truth!

    We're all with you buddy, Panda

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Hi Winston

    It certainly does look like the heat is on for you! I sympathize. However, the heat needs to be turned down a little.

    The key: respect and empathy for each other's viewpoints, as well as PATIENCE!

    You are desperate for your wife to see things as you do. She is desperate to cling on to what she's always known. Don't forget that in her eyes the WTS are 'God' - powerful motivator! This conflict between your outlooks is causing damage.

    OK. My husband read a lot and saw errors in the WTS many years ago. He became edgy and depressed. I thought he was going out the troof. I was going to carry on as a JW regardless of what he did. Thankfully, he didn't try to persaude me to his views - it would have alienated me from him. I did ask him what was on his mind sometimes, but I didn't 'get it', so those kinds of conversations were few and far between. We still had enough in common outside the WTS to have a good marriage.

    It's only in recent years, that on my own, I decided to look into the stuff he did. I have now come to the same conclusions as he has, and some new ones he doesn't hold!

    You know that believing JWs say that unbelieving marriage mates should be 'won without a word', by seeing their reasonable, good conduct? It works in this situation too.

    Your wife may come round eventually, in her own time, when she's ready. In the meantime, you continue to be a loving, compassionate husband.

  • xjw_b12
    xjw_b12

    Special K and AnnOMaley.

    Nice to have the woman's perspective on this. I am sure Winston will find this encouraging.

  • Richie
    Richie

    Winston, why don't you get the Greek Interlinear Bible, which brings out the literal translation from the original Greek to English, after which it was translated into the NWT - You will see so many discrepancies, misquotes and deliberate changes, that your wife has to admit the Society to be less than honest in these matters. Show proof from a publication printed by the Watchtower and compare this with the New World Translation.... Try it, then she will believe you...

    Good luck and let me know.....

    Richie

    PS: If it's possible, try to get the Greek Interlinear from the 1960's - there are so many more mistakes and deliberate changes...

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