Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?

by AlainAlam 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nitty-Gritty
    Nitty-Gritty

    @AlainAlam

    You don't believe in the Bible and you don't believe in God, so we all evolved and we are all going to die with no hope of something after. So what does it matter that some people believe the opposite? I think one should respect the belief of others, especially when that person is obviously happy and content believing what they do. This is why Jws will only seek out people who show interest in what they have to say, there's obviously no point trying to convert someone if they don't want to be converted. People who insist that others see things their way are controlling and disrespectful.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    You let them decide.

    You let them ask you.

    Then you say, "What if .....the truth about WT leaves you depressed and pained with regret and lost. We both know there is a lot to lose"

    Then you don't tell them outright anything. It will be so tempting when they ask "like what?" Think about it deeply, your own experience, what takes months to research in person is powerful and visceral. If summarised in 3 minutes, it can be ignored and forgotten in 3 minutes. I've done it myself, a nuclear explosion of anti J.w logic and evidence, presented too easy to digest, too succinctly, they can hit 'ignore' in their mind for those two minutes with ease, distracted with an excuse they are desperate to fire back, so much so they ignore your point entirely. The ministry has taught them to argue well, not reason well! If you could easily reason with a JW..... there would be no JW's!

    Point them into the direction of their own research. Let them feel the visceral emotions of discovering TTATT, because once you do, you can never go back. It's impossible! Its like trying to pretend Santa exists at 53 yrs old.

    "You can only know your own motives, not the motives of anyone telling you anything. You don't even know mine, though I know they are good, I seek the TRUTH only, you must do the same for yourself! Don't trust anyone, including me! I can save you time by pointing you in the right direction for data and topics worth exploring, but only if you wish. If you prove me wrong, ill come back to WT."

    Be careful to think you can sling information at them and de-convert them. I have attempted this, they have answers for everything and a god that can magic any answer. They have already spent years, decades ....developing cognitive dissonance, your reasoning may dent their armour, but they self constructed that armour with the motive to protect their own beliefs. They have invested so much time, money, life into this. They have made marriage, child, career, family, future decisions bases on these beliefs....they are invested HARD. For years they have ignored their OWN minds, ignoring yours will come easy.

    This is all achievable however it requires different approaches for differing people. I have helped several people leave, all have been wildly different. Only theme was.... let them do it.

    Lastly, be careful what you wish for,....I had two close friends who insisted I tell them why I was leaving the JW's. They both went into a mega depression. One came out more brainwashed than ever. The other, he remains very unwell and depressed 15 years on, both still J.w's.

  • caves
    caves

    Snare, that was an awesome answer! How true.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    On some level, people want to be lied to...they want to hear what they want to hear and they are quite prepared to punish anyone who (for whatever reason) bursts their happy little bubble.

    So....

    If someone asks you directly for your advice or input...give it but give it sparingly. Answer only the questions they ask you and nothing more.

    If your motive is to prove a point, vindicate yourself personally or to get retribution for the wrongs you suffered....keep your mouth shut. A mind changed by force is a mind unchanged.

    If someone is in imminent danger....say something otherwise, it's not your job to save or enlighten the world. That's an old JW notion.

    When the student is ready....the teacher will come.

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen

    You can always simply ask them and check their willingness to change their mind:

    • Is it important to you to believe true things?
    • Suppose someone is convinced of something that is not true. How can they find out?
    • Hypothetically, imagine what JW believe isn't true at all, would you want to know?
    • What kind of evidence might convince you your (religious) beliefs are not correct?
    • Etc...

    Their answers tell you all you need to know.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    ALAIN ALAM:

    Maybe I am unusual but I feel no need to tell Witnesses the nasty truth about their religion...I’m just glad I got out. I have no family there. Others may feel differently wanting to rescue children, etc. and I hope they have success.

    Some people like the religion NOW because things are going well and they have a great social life and what they think are ‘friends’. I have no desire to drag them out with both arms. Let them stay there. I think some JWs know deep down there is something wrong but they are optimistic. I once was.

    But, the religion is bad and breaks up families and doesn’t protect children; parents are lulled into stupidity and trusting strangers (I wasn’t raised a JW and would NEVER have been allowed unattended with strange adults); it ruins lives by discouraging education and careers and people end up unprepared when retirement age arrives. I’m just glad I never listened to their garbage.

    Even though I will leave the activism to somebody else, if any JW I knew had doubts and wanted sincere conversation without trying to preach (I have no patience) I would be glad to talk with them.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I'm with Long Hair Gal on this, I feel no need anymore to inform JW's, I did, when I first left the cult, I thought it was Mission to give them any and all information, my Duty.

    As I matured after leaving, I came to appreciate it simply was not down to me morally to do so, unless there were dire circumstances, and the JW was in some grave danger by believing, which of course can happen.

    I now live my life by the Mantra "Do the least Harm and the most Good". Using that, if I ever get to talk to them, I think about the person and how what I say will affect them. For example, some of my older relatives who are JW would be lost and devastated without their Social Club, which is the only benefit they truly gain from it, but why should I make their life emptier than it is ? They would be lonely and sad.

    On occasion when JW's have knocked on my door I have given them some real truth, if they come trying to shove their beliefs upon me, then I think it is fair to explain in a kindly and measured way why it is not for me. But I don't see any moral imperative to do anything normally, and sometimes I have simply said something like " It was kind of you to call, Goodbye". If I am too busy to have a conversation. Hope this helps.

  • AlainAlam
    AlainAlam

    Everyone, thank you for your input! Very helpful.

    And caves, thank you for your input in particular, read it several times :)

  • JimmyYoung
    JimmyYoung

    Unless you know them very well and even then I doubt I would unless you are ready for trouble. Don't do it except one on one that way you can deny deny deny. If you don't care if you get the stink eye then go for it.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    Don't do it except one on one that way you can deny deny deny.` Jimmy

    One-on-one with two different persons qualifies as "two witnesses" against you in your Judicial Committee.

    "They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God". ` John 16:2

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