Yes it is a difficult topic. My father clearly knew something was wrong, but the old books by Russell was the furthest he dared to venture into questioning things. He was woefully ignorant about the history of the movement and where Russell got his ideas from. He did not use the internet. I think he died very much in doubt about the doctrines, but sadly probably more about his salvation than the validity of the org. Despite their faults, they were still "the apple of God's eye". They had taken the new testament away from him, so he tried to find sufficient grace in the old. I dont know what would have been hardest, what happened or what would have happened if someone had tried to make him see things differently. That would have been some exorcism.
Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?
by AlainAlam 27 Replies latest jw friends
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joe134cd
I was just thinking of the judicial cases that I have heard on you tube. More often they have been the result of a comment such as “wt is a false prophet” to a PIMI recipient who didn’t take kindly to it. How much different things could of been if the JW had come to apostate and asked.
As is the case of my aged father. It is just more practical to keep my mouth shut for the sake of his physical/mental health. I also choose to refrain from revealing my true thoughts on the org to other members of the congregation, as it would also impact the type of care I can give him. For example I can take him to the hall, and they can come around and visit while I’m physically there with no problem. Been DFed, and particularly for apostasy, would just be an added complication I just don’t want to deal with.
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joe134cd
This reminds me of a situation that happened locally, where a couple were DFed for apostasy. However, the problem occurred with looking after the unwell aged parents of the DFed couple. They were situated the closest to the parents, so if there was a medical alert they could be the first to render assistance. The concern was would the PIMI elder father notify them first if there was such an emergency, or would he opt for the other (none DFed JW) sibling, who was a 40 minute drive away. It was also of concern about the standard of care because the her brother and wife (care giver) now lived one and a third hour, round trip, away. It turned out to be very messy. All because of opening their mouth to the wrong people. It kind of makes me so angry that lawyer in Canada who argued in court that normal family relations remain in tact when member is DFed. I say BS to that.
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LongHairGal
JOE134CD:
Stories like yours just prove that everybody who wants to leave the JW religion can’t just open their mouth if they have family there. As you have described, it can have serious repercussions!
Somebody like me who has No relatives in the Witness religion could come out and blab (which I did not do because I didn’t want any drama at the time and just wanted Out).
There have been dozens of threads on this forum over the years with bickering over whether it is better to Fade or Disassociate. There is an attitude among some who DA that they are morally superior over somebody who Fades.. Maybe some said too much too soon and suffered because of it and they are resentful towards Faders because they imagine Faders didn’t ‘suffer’ as much..
Well, I feel it has to do with a person’s situation, emotional state and whether or not they have relatives there. If somebody can Disassociate and has no relatives..and the spiteful religion cannot get at them, then great! If they can do it loud and publicly even better. But, everybody does not have the luxury or even the mental disposition to want to do this.
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Giordano
I call the WTBTS a criminal organization because they use coercion to make their followers shun those that leave the religion. It's not good enough when someone says I don't want to be a part of this any longer.
You Fade or you leave. And of course shunning will be used.
Coercion: Class A misdemeanor or class D felony. ... (c) Coercion is a class A misdemeanor except, if the threat is to commit a felony, coercion is a class D felony.Nov 2, 2019
- The act of forcing, threatening or intimidating a person so as to get a desired result from them in this case shunning. Destroys families.
- While the Society depends on freedom of religion they do not recognize freedom from their religion.
- Sure you can leave however being shunned will be the outcome.
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AlainAlam
Giordano, they will say "they" are not coercing you into doing anything. You signed up for this when you made your dedication to Jehovah. You knew about DF/DA. We're just here to help you live up to your dedication to Jehovah. And if you don't want to, you're free to.
The basic issue is dedication/baptism. I can't make an eternal vow. I'm imperfect. I misunderstand stuff. I misjudge the importance of stuff. I change my mind on stuff. I grow. I can't make an eternal promise. The concept a human making an eternal vow is stupid. If Jehovah existed, he would have known that.
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LongHairGal
ALAIN ALAM:
Not trying to get between you and Giordano:
When I was ‘studying’ with the JWs I was never told anything about the doctrine of disfellowshipping! They hid a lot of stuff from me and totally covered up things. They told me everybody was ‘equal’ there and they had ‘no’ clergy class. This is not entirely true as they have a plainclothes clergy and as many titles as the churches do. They also claim clergy/penitent privilege in courts.
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AlainAlam
LongHairGal, you're right. I just checked, it's not in Teach Us/Bible Teach, and it's not even in the 180 questions for baptism.