On satellite TV there is a regular program called Book of Mormon Discussions, the panel of mormon teachers expound and ellaborate upon the deep meaning in the book, seeing great import and prophecy in every word. The book is a joke as we all probably know. It is low grade fiction filled with plagerism and anachronism. Yet these intelligent men see the world thru it. The speak beautifully about God's love and care insisting they are simply using the Book of Mormon as the basis for their teaching. This well parallels the way teachers of the Bible see value and endless beauty in their book. For me, it was an epiphany of sorts to listen to these guys. It was truly moving, but it was a reflection of the human imagination and values and obviously not any Divine inspiration. The objectivity I needed to see this was no doubt the result of my a priori discust with the book of Mormon as a religious fraud. The question that haunted me was, why can't these intelligent people see this? It was obvious they were too close, too invested in the book to see what was happening. All their values and sense of hope had become wrapped up in a book. They were blinded by belief.
book of Mormon
by peacefulpete 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
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czarofmischief
God becomes all things to everyone, to teach us all that we need to know.
Maybe right now they need the Book to cling to while they learn the important things of love, mercy, and duty.
CZAR
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SanFranciscoJim
It was obvious they were too close, too invested in the book to see what was happening. All their values and sense of hope had become wrapped up in a book. They were blinded by belief.
This is how the Mormon religion continues to thrive. Unlike the Bible, which can be discussed intelligently (and refuted, when need be) by examining the scriptures in their original languages of Hebrew and Greek, this cannot be done with the Book of Mormon, because it was written in a "mystery" language which no one alive can interpret. The Mormon faith is based on the blind leading the blind. I believe it is more difficult to draw a Mormon away from their belief system than a JW, because the JWs (at least to some degree) have the Bible as a basis for their faith. The Mormons have a work of fiction in which they have placed their implicit trust. It is hard to argue with fairy tales.
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stillajwexelder
A metallurgist or material scientist could see thorugh it anyway -- if memory serves me correctly the book of mormon talks about Steel -- this is an Industrial Revolution alloy -- and Brass -- at the earlist that was discovered in the middle ages -- bronze is an alloy of antiquity -- but basically they are the same as witnesses -- so blind they only see what they want to see -- just can not reason with a witness that for example the Daniel book is nothing more than a work of Fiction from the hands of Freddie Franz - -especially the bit about a 4000 year old prophecy being fulfilled between two 1938 watchtowers -- wonderfully amusing to read though -- amkes me laugh every time
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peacefulpete
San Fran...The point was that it is human to superimpose our values and hopes upon something tangible to give them validity. The Mormons believe as surely and strongly as you do about the Bible that the Book of Mormon is the source of their values and is message from God to them. For them to discard the book would be to discard hope and goodness to their minds. They fail to see that the hope and goodness were in themselves all along and will continue with them if they move away from the legends and traditions of the Church. Another point was the skill that experienced teachers have at using a basic story and extrapolating endless applications that keeps the stories seem fresh and meaningful to their audience. The same is true of the stories in the Bible. (I had hoped I wouldn't have had to say it so explicitly)
The Greek/English/Inuit/Polish translating the Bible thing is a source of great problems for the Bible rather than any boon to understanding.
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SanFranciscoJim
The Greek/English/Inuit/Polish translating the Bible thing is a source of great problems for the Bible rather than any boon to understanding.
This is the point I was trying to make. When any book is translated from one language to another, there are bound to be errors in meaning and understanding. Years ago, Dick Cavett on his talk show brought people up from the audience to test a similar theory. He would whisper something in English to the first person in line. The first person would translate it into French. The next person would translate it from French into Vietnamese, and so on. By the time it reached the other end of the line, it was translated back into English, but the end result was something entirely different.
In order to extrapolate the true meaning of the themes in the Bible, one can go to the languages in which it was originally written (using a guide such as Strong's Exhaustive Concordance), and engage in thoughtful, rational discussion about what was actually said and meant.
This cannot be done with the Book of Mormon, because the "original" language in which it is written is, according to the Mormon Church, extinct (or, in actuality, quite probably never existed at all).
My complaint about the use of the Book of Mormon in maintaining the flock and attracting new worshippers is that it cannot be intelligently discussed and examined because of its basis in myth. This isn't to say that I do not also believe the Bible to contain mythological accounts, but at least the languages the Bible was originally written in were not mythological.
The Mormon Church uses the Book of Mormon the same way Jehovah's Witnesses use the Watchtower. Rational discussion and examination of the contents contained therein is impossible, because neither have any historical basis upon which to base rational discussion. The flocks are expected to read and believe blindly and unquestioningly.
What is written in the Book of Mormon came from the minds of men. If there is good in that book, then it came from the human mind as well. It is a shame that those in charge use the words therein to manipulate and coerce, instead of accentuating the good which is in us all already.
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peacefulpete
I give up. The original language of the book of Mormon is English so your point is? (I know the silly legend of lost golden "tablets". It is about as silly as imagining the 4th century versions of the NT are the same as the supposed lost "original" writings by the hand of inspired "Apostles".) Translating has nothing at all with the ability of sincere and effective teachers and students to create a world view from a fictional book. A wise man once said somthing like, "To know that what is true for oneself is true for all men, that is genius". We imagine we are somehow more careful or intelligent and would never make the kind of errors in judgement that others do. To acccept that others have feelings the same as our own (and vice versa) and reason in similar ways as ourselves is the first step toward rational thought, intellecual honesty and compassion. The objectivity we enjoy as those distanced from Mormon theology or Islamic (eg. Koran as late conflation of 8 documents of various origin) is difficult for us when discussing the Bible.
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Singing Man
I believe the bible as "far as it is translated correctly" so says the Mormons. Well you know me too, but who in the heck knows if it is correct? Who is so smart as to know for certain? I can't claim to be that smart none of you are that smart, the Witness's are not that smart or even divinely inspired for that matter, they would love to have you believe they are even if there is no history of them being so.
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hooberus
The Book of Mormon claims to be a history of two main groups of people (the Nephites and the Lamanites) the later of which is claimed to be the principal ancestors of the American Indians. The Bible claims to be a history of the Jewish nation and God's dealings with them.
The Jews are a known people group. Which stilll speak Hebrew (the language of the OT).
The American Indians do not speak Hebrew (the language of Laman). Nor is there cultural or genetic similaries between the Indians and the Jews (Laman was supposedly Jewish).
Much of the Bible has at leat some archaeological support, wheras the Book of Mormon has virtually none.
The manuscripts of the Bible (written in known languages such as Hebrew and Greek) number in the thousands, with some going back to the second century. The Book of Mormon was written in "reformed Egyptian" an unknown language to this day. There are no "original manuscripts" in this language for the Book of Mormon.
In addition there is secular support for many of the people in the Bible such as Pontius Pilate, Jesus Christ, Herod, etc. The book of Mormon has no outside support.
The manuscripts of the Bible can also be checked by quotes form ancient authors such as early fathers going back to the first century.
The books of the Bible were written by several authors whereas the Book of Mormon rests upon a single person- Joseph Smith.
Though some Mormons are as zealous for the Book of Mormon as some Christians are for the Bible the fact remains that the basis for the Bible is much stronger than for the Book of Mormon.