they can argue,
Waton, Jesus was a “Son of David” “Save we pray, Blessed is he who comes in the name of Jehovah.” It was God who forgave David and allowed Jesus to be tortured and murdered— not the Watchtower.
Blood Transfusions & Flood, Questions from Bible student only
by Marbles 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
Fisherman
-
Marbles
@Fisherman, I am wondering if you think the OT as Christians are in possession of it, is a complete, comprehensive guide? In other words, are there many missing elements to it, such as oral tradition and commentary on it that prevent Christians from fully grasping its meaning? Also, if you could answer another question, how do you think Christians came to be in possession of the OT in the first place, since this is sacred to Jewish people only and I assume was preserved in their Temples? Do you think this material was gained when the Temple(s) were raided and made desolate?
Yes, I'm familiar that some people, even some Jewish people, believe the holocaust was "God's punishment." I don't worship a God like that, so I guess that makes me an "atheist," as defined by the Bible. I don't think either the holocaust OR the atomic bomb were "God's will." There's more emphasis on the holocaust than the atomic bomb, and I don't think there should be.
Anyway, I am just trying to get some clarity on why blood transfusions are considered "eating blood" when eating blood, in my opinion, refers to non-Kosher meat. Surely JWs eat non-kosher meat? Not all JW's are vegans? They don't have a problem with non kosher meat but they have a problem with blood transfusions? Makes no sense. The digestive system, and the cardiovascular system or two almost entirely different systems. The digestive system basically nourishes the organs. The cardiovascular system basically brings oxygen to the organs (and creates antibodies to fight infection, and other functions not limited to providing the organs with oxygen). Blood cells can become mal formed to the point of not being sufficient to bring sufficient oxygen, and a blood transfusion helps remedy that process, thus being an aid in treating cancer. As I see it, a blood transfusion does not have anything to do with "eating blood." -
Fisherman
Marbles,
The gist of the Christian Bible is that Jesus will return to usher in the kingdom of God. In the meantime, natural Israel was replaced by a spiritual Israel consisting of Gentiles and some individual descendants of the 12 tribes. The Israel’s ritualistic practices under the law and the covenant between God and the ancient Israelites consisting of the mitzvot was abolished upon the death of Jesus. Rabbinical Judaism adds nothing to Christianity: resurrecting the dead and healing humanity and being able to live for eternity. Christianity deals with proselytizing or preaching the kingdom of God and Christian living as outlined in the CS. The Oral law and the modern day Pharisaical approach concerns itself with the application of the Torah as interpreted by the Rabbis: ritualistic, ceremonial, tedious rules of conduct. Rabbinical law also enjoins 7 additional mitzvot —all for nothing according to the Christian Scriptures. There is very interesting information in the Talmud for example hiw the high priest had a rope tied around him before entering the most holy on the day of atonement, details about the celebration of booths and many other things but not important to understanding the OT from the perspective of the Christian Scriptures.
JW believe that blood transfusions violate God’s law. Best place to read about it is on the JW website. Can a Christian pump a quart of blood into his body for medical reasons as long as it bypasses his stomach? WT says no.
The Septuagint OT was available in the first century. First Christians were Jews who had the OT such as Paul who was a Pharisee. As Christianity spread so did the OT.
-
waton
f:
God who forgave David and allowed Jesus to be tortured and murdered— not the Watchtower.
Accept the fact that theses are stories written by the victors. How can a repeat offender, having the blood (and foreskins) of 10s of thousands on his hands be the shining hero. might makes right.
that is the point: wt claims to be in the same league as that offensive, probably fictional character.
-
Fisherman
offensive, probably fictional character. written by the victors
Waton, that is a separate subject matter. My post is limited to what the text says and how it can be interpreted not whether it is fact or fiction.
-
waton
f: whether it is fact or fiction.
fair enough, there are aspects to these bible stories that appear to be embellishments. but when discussed as fact, can be seen as the parallel of wt methods, where actions of the leaders are always attributed to , or rendered to the deity, rather than the earthwhile actors.
"jehovah" forgave David, how do we know that? "jehovah" supported the wt, how do we know that.
look at the spectacular accomplishments of the rest of humanity. often done without free labour and tax free status.
substitute " the name " with governing body, wt inc. sounds great.
in Davids case substitute "the holy name" with "the army". sound plausible, barring credible divine testimony for it now.
-
Fisherman
jehovah" forgave David, how do we know that?
We conclude that by what is written in the Scriptures and obviously because he wasn’t put to death and God kept his covenant with him producing Jesus also David wrote under inspiration after his sin and God continued to communicate with him.
jehovah" supported the wt, how do we know that.
JW believe that and personally conclude that on their own.
-
wozza
Fisherman 42 minutes ago
We conclude that by what is written in the Scriptures and obviously because he wasn’t put to death
I think that is the point being made against your argument ,he had the power and army to make his own history just as all the other dictators in history.
And while considering David think about this ,those of his that followed suffered the ultimate cost where David can SAY he suffered.
And let us look at Solomon who died an apostate and yet his writings still appear in the holy bible which the WTS holds high ,bet they won't hold Ray Franz writings and life in the same way.
Your beliefs are disgusting and reveal what kind of human being you are ,go and find yourself a conscience and come back to the human race!
-
Marbles
I'm not sure how King David, or the blood of Jesus, got all entangled into this conversation, unless it has something to do with King David being "The Kingdom of God" JWs refer to, and the blood of Jesus being shed to go back in time to that time period to restore the Kingdom of David? Because, like I have inferred, if JWs take the Bible literally, then "eating blood" refers to non-kosher meat, and I'm pretty sure JWs eat non-kosher meat. I don't think the blood transfusion issue has to do with Jesus' blood shed and/or the "Kingdom [David's] of God." I think "refraining from blood" interpreted to mean no blood transfusions has to do with JWs having no idea what they are talking about. Marcus Aurelius was a great emperor, and his writings are preserved to this day. But I don't see any reason anyone would wish to live under Marcus Aurelius' reign again if it meant living without modern comforts that modern society offers. Likewise I just don't see why anyone would want to live under King David again, or for that matter, Donald Trump, or JFK, or Bill Clinton, etc. JWs quote the OT all the time so how then can you say the Old covenant was abolished by the New? Which is it, for God's sake? It's just JW double talk. No, there is no "spiritual Israel." Read Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion. Read it all. (You can easily download the pdf online for free).The OT was written by them and for them only. The question is only how it got into Christian hands. (Read also Josephus, I believe the section titled Jewish Wars).
-
joey jojo
Fisherman:
"All they had was a knife and cutting the cartoid artery with a sharp knife rendered the animal unconscious before it was aware of it as it bled to death. That was the most humane method at that time."
Animals dont become unconscious as soon as their throat is cut. It takes a while for them to die and they are in distress the whole time. A blow to the head to instantly kill it first would be more humane.
The 'captive bolt' method used in non-religious meat processing plants these days does not stun the animal- it kills it outright, and then the throat is cut.