Blood Transfusions & Flood, Questions from Bible student only

by Marbles 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  waton

  f: JW believe that and personally conclude that on their own.

  very few JWs would come to the wt beliefs on their own, they are led carefully into the trap of controlled thinking. It is a circular argument to try to will the truth onto a matter by the delusion of so many. and dont counter with wt's "mental picture" explanation. no high mountain required, can be done in the basement.

  coming back to the OP. the "Flood"

  Jesus, the son of David, endorsed that event, by making it a parallel to the coming end. As a co-creator of the Universe and its laws and a carpenter, he must have known, that a small family business, using bronze age tool, could not possibly have constructed a vessel this size, Able to carry that full load, withstand for 9 month the immense stresses of rain and currents that swirled, rose at 10 meter an hour for 40 days.

  It was time to set the record straight, not dignify a fable with the mantle of scriptural truth, absolute, unquestionable facts. ditto

  The Messiah's conversation with Satan, the flat earth advocate, showing all the Earth's mighty kingdoms, far away. on a clear day, from a high mountain. It was time to give satan (and bible readers) a lesson in spherical geometry, dispel the error, the adversary's

  false promise based on a fallacious premise. so,

  yes wt, like some bible writers will equate their pronouncements with the word coming from god, them being that god, always at the disadvantage of the duped.
• 

  Fisherman

  Animals dont become unconscious as soon as their throat is cut.

  That is axiomatic and I did not say that they did.

  Also, peta.org says that the bolt is meant to stun the cow. I’m only quoting them. Also, some years ago someone who worked at a slaughtering house who used the rod on cows told me all about it but I don’t remember. I remember he said that the cow was lifted and hung with chains after the air piston to the brain. I don’t remember if he said they first used electricity before the rod to the brain.

  However cows slaughtered in today’s gov approved slaughter houses seems more merciful than production slaughtering with a knife by religious butchers— but I don’t know. JW only require that the animal be bled. Cruelty to animals is also forbidden in the Bible but killing an animal for food is not.
• 

  waton

  Since the lifeblood is so central to the sin/atonement idea of religionists,

  In the bible story, how did the vegetarians in the pre-flood area like Abel procure the needed sacrificial " choice fatty pieces "? were they just raiding the heaps of dead animals? even cats and dogs did not eat that meat.

  Think about the flood, in the ark, one pair each, except 7 of the clean, herbivores all. good, imagine 9 month worth of dog, cat, lion, tiger foods. and the pile of results of their digestion. May be they had a walk on loo grating overhanging the deck.( not shown in pictures), precursor to the pegs for the millions in the desert.
• 

  Marbles

  @waton, I appreciate your plain and intelligent response very much! I agree. Parables and fables are the same, and not to be taken literally. Not everyone in a congregation will identify with Aesop's fable The Tortoise and the Hare in the same way. Some might interpret that fable to mean "nice guys finish last." Others might take it to mean don't rush when you need to get important work done.
  
  @fisherman, you have said a lot about Jewish traditions that I don't understand at all. Please decipher it into plain language? Not trying to be rude, but I am not Jewish. Are you? I am assuming you are, by the way you responded. This is why I asked you, how did the Christians come to possess copies of the OT? Was it during temple raids? And isn't it reasonable to assume if it was acquired during temple raids that some of the OT is missing? The point being that laws about blood refer to the Jews and kosher meat, no one else. But if you, as a JW (I do not know if you are or are not) wish to adopt Jewish religion, as JWs seem to pick and choose which rituals they can adopt, you can easily buy kosher salt at the grocery store and "cleanse" the meat you eat so it is kosher. Unless you can prove to me otherwise, this is what is meant by "not eating blood." It does NOT refer to blood transfusions! There is a ton of scientific, factual inaccuracy in the Bible. Yes, as waton said, during the time the Bible was written, many people believed the earth was flat. You can try to point out there is reference in the Bible to it being a "circle" but the earth is a sphere, not a circle. And the smart men of the earth could deduce that since the moon was a sphere, the earth was also a sphere.
• 

  Marbles

  @Fisherman, is it your world view, and the reason Jewish people pray at the Wailing Wall, that Solomon's Temple will be re-built? Is that what the JW's are trying to say? Because to my world view, that is a stunning fallacy. I just don't see things that way.
  
  Obviously I could never become a JW because I ask too many questions.
  
  ETA: David was forbidden from building a temple "because he had shed too much blood" so his son Solomon built one instead.
  
  

  (I Chronicles 22:6-8)

  “You have shed blood abundantly, and have made great wars; you shall not build a house in My name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in My sight.”
  
  Shavuot Learning from Talia | Springboard Blog @ Jewish United Fund (juf.org)
• 

  Fisherman

  Solomon's Temple will be re-built?

  No. The Christian Scriptures do not teach that. No more building a temple on earth. As the CS explains, rebuilding bethhamekdash means a spiritual substance in heaven. For example, the Israel of God that replaced the Jews is referred to as the New Jerusalem. The Jewish system of things which was once approved by God destroyed by the Romans is over forever .You can read all about it at the jw online library. Ultimately the individual communication with God that Adam had will be restored and that is the temple right there but before getting to that point, the Messianic Kingdom in heaven replaces all of that “earthly” structure. Also, the return to Jerusalem as taught by the Rabbis is not taught in the CS. Rabbinical Jews have a literal interpretation of the restoration prophecies whereas the CS spiritualizes the meaning. This is a very difficult topic to explain. Trying to simplify the best I can but information is posted online.
  
  
• 

  Rivergang

  Having worked for several recent years as a maintenance electrician in a large meat processing facility, I can confirm that the animals are rendered unconscious first, before being killed when their throats are slashed. Cattle are knocked unconscious by means of a pneumatic hammer applied to the forehead. Sheep are rendered unconscious from an electric shock applied behind the ears. As to suffering, animals can sense death, and know what is coming. That is why it usually requires the use of an electric “cattle prod” to drive them up the race and into the “knock-box”. I always took the view that “people have to eat”.
• 

  Marbles

  fisherman, okay thank you for explaining your view point on the Temple. I'm not sure why you have not speculated as to how the Christians acquired Jewish scripture to begin with (?!) but that's okay. I think it's important though.
• 

  Marbles

  @rivergang, thank you for clarifying they do not suffer other than their genuine sense/fear of death. Even my cat used to get terrified of the insecticide I put on his back for fleas. I not longer put it on him.
• 

  Fisherman

  why you have not speculated

  It is a fact that the Romans plundered the 2nd Temple aka Herod’s Temple. The arch of Titus proves it. Jesus said of the Jews: “The kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a goy producing its fruits.” Assuming this is true, God took the OT away from the Jews and gave it to Christians —I’m just speculating or guessing.