by hooberus 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Back to Colossians Chapter 1:
The Watchtower interpretation of Colossians Chapter 1, has two creators Jehovah and an angel. This contadicts the Bible which teaches that Jehovah alone is the creator and that all things were of and through Jehovah.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/59530/1.ashx
Since Trinitarians believe that the Father and the Son are Jehovah (though different persons within the one God), we Trinitarians only have one creator (Jehovah) of whom and through whom are all things.
from a different perspective.
Paul/Saul, a greek raised wannabe pharasee [note he worked for the Saducee preists which NO self respecting pharasee of that day would do]. hallucinated a risen christ and preached him far and wide in the manner of the greek gnostics of the mystery schools of his day. The concept of the divine LOGOS or REASON was known in that time, the facalty by which the divine manifested creation, as John 1:1 puts it in distant echo of Pauls prior letter to the Colossians... The Jews seem to have NO concept of a trinity god and still reject such a notion except for some kaballahists who were influenced by mystery schools themselves... It seems no stretch to see that Paul mixes at times the roles of the god-man christ with the ultimate divine... which in the mystery schools was not alien and unreachable but the goal of all humans, where the god man role was the model of all to follow and aspire to... to be ONE with GOD as I am ONE with my father. [john 17:11,21].
Trinitarians often ignore the fact that NO ONE ever teaches the trinity to the jews who had no such concept and simply believe that they automatically understood trinitarian references which is utter stupidity on their part... since people ONLY read their own experiences into words, not the intentions of authors... and if the author does not teach a trinity he cannot expect anyone who does not believe in one to automatically find one in his words.... trinitarians are brainwashed to accept this alien to jewish thought concept of a trinity first and then it is very easy to see one in words which had nothing to do with one.
Paul believed that Jesus Christ was a real historical person. Paul persecuted Christians before he heard the voice of Jesus Christ, hense Christianity existed before Paul.
The Old Testament provides evidence of a multi-personal God in many passages.
Hi Zen:
You are right about the extra-biblical influence on interpreting the Bible. Everyone does it whether they admit it or not. Everyone comes to interpreting any piece of literature through their own assumptions. The Bible itself is really a product of the tradition of the Catholic Church.
Jeff S.
Paul was persecuting the followers of the WAY, which was likely a revolutionary group who predated christianity by over a hundred years. there is evidence from the dead sea that followers of the teacher of righteousnes and the war of the sons of light was a lot older than the Jesus myths.
I just read an interesting site last night, there is an Italian atheist putting together evidence to charge the Vatican with fraud in Italian court claiming to show that Jesus never existed by was a pure fiction invented by the church by combining elements of zealots lead by a John of Gamala and his brother whos names bear striking corrospondance to the apostles, and, gnostic teachings modified by the church to suit its own ends. it also gives a very detailed accounting of the extra-biblical references of Jesus and shows clearly why most of them were much later church forgeries... the interesting thing is that it chips away at the supposed historical foundations of christianity and shows a massive fraud more likely than a real Jesus existing.
I dont know if Jesus existed or not, but I do know that no sufficient evidence has ever been shown me that he really existed and a lot of things have caused me to doubt it.
one thing often missed by trinitarians... they never learned of the doctrine of trinity from the bible, they were taught it extra-biblically and then showen evidence for this outside teaching from all manner of OUT OF CONTEXT VERSES
I disagree.
I was an ardent "Trinity-hating" JW, when my studies of the bible brought me to that conclusion.
As for the Jews having no concept of a Trinity, I would suggest that a fellacious comment, as per your own comments. Trinitarian worship was contemporary to them, as practiced in surrounding nations which they had dealings with.
**As for the Jews having no concept of a Trinity, I would suggest that a fellacious comment, as per your own comments. **Trinitarian worship was contemporary to them, as practiced in surrounding nations which they had dealings with.
the Jews having no concept of a Trinity-- for their God. Clearly Jehovah refers to himself always I, not We and prophets as HE, never as they. Jews to this day maintain that their God was ONE unlike the other god[s] surrounding them which were often multiples of three, generally a Mother and son with a shadowy father who is often the a mysterious entity who dies and is reincarnated as his own son.
