by Crazyguy 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Criminalising 150,000+ people does not protect Russia.
The undermining of human rights and the abuse of the legal system to do so by the government is far more dangerous to the Russian people. Extremism is growing in Russia but it's actually government sponsored thuggery and a growing sense of freedom for right wing and nationalistic groups that is the real concern.
Why would you want to ban a whole group of people who most decidedly are not terrorists and who are generally law-abiding citizens? How is a society safer as a result?
If anything was going to finish off the JWs, it would be apathy.
That fact has been noted by many others who contribute on this discussion board, and is certainly recognised by the JW leadership. (Over 30 years ago, I can recall the Circuit Overseer doing a rant about how apathetic we were all becoming. I have little reason to believe that much has improved since then!)
In the JW world, one thing gauranteed to counteract apathy is an outbreak of persecution. So much so, that it was often noted that in the places where the JWs became legalised, there then began a slow but steady trend towards apathy.
Trying to ban the JWs may inflict some harm on them, but would likely be more than offset by the shot of adrenaline that it would subsequently release!
If anything was going to finish off the JWs, it would be apathy.
Succinctly said BB! I have often said on this forum that it will be apathy and not apostasy that will prove to be JW organization's biggest threat. Given the current topic, I would modify my comment as follows:
It will be apathy - and neither apostasy nor persecution - that will prove to be JW organization's biggest threat.
Well, lots of opinion and we are all entitled to them.
My opinion is that 'it'll be different this time' and my "evidence" is...
1) Masses of disappointed JWs. (all their teachings have been undermined, not by outsiders, but by the GB themselves. This has had an effect. Future reactions will not be the same as in the past.)
2) The Watchtower Society is shrinking where it counts.
3) The information proving WT is a bunch of hypocritical fools is exploding and that only continues.
4) The world has changed. Did you ever think that a lunatic would make it into the most powerful chair in the world?
In the past, dubs truly believed and threw their lives away quickly. Today, all I see is self-sparing pansies who are doing what they want away from the kingdumb hall.
I've been part of the organization over 50 years, and I am still going. I see it first hand. Many of you fine persons are outsiders and you cannot understand the dynamic. And reports from that part of the world reinforce my opinion. Dubs are sick and tired of the same old-same old conflicting doctrines, hollow promises and do more do more. They don't trust the ORG like they used to. And I believe they are just looking for an excuse to stop.
Time will tell. I'll be watching.
I'm no apologist for JWs and (I was bought up by JWs but never got baptised and never subscribed to their beliefs) I was one of those who argued that they should be free to practice their religion. It is an adult's right to belong to any crazy cult they like. I don't think it is the business of government to dictate to people which bunch of religious nutters that people are allowed to join.
If individual JWs have broken the law they should be held to account by a court. Similarly the JWs rules on reporting child abuse falls woefully short of the standards that we expect and I think the courts should force them to correct them, banning them would not improve the situation for children being bought up by JW parents in any way.
Yes, apathy.
But I think non-aggressive "apostasy" is helping in this Information Age. Where would many of us be without Crisis of Conscience or JWFacts?
Education is another key to combating cults.
Unfortunately, this Russian ban is counteracting the educational work of "apostates".
I'm with Coded Logic on this one. I am no apologist by any means but freedom of religion is a fundamental human right, no matter how problematic we might personally find various belief systems. The bottom line is that no government has the right to tell any human how or what to believe. Moreover, from what I've read about this ban, it appears that Russia is aiming at the fact that JWs criticize other belief systems, which involves freedom of speech.
Dictators and other oppressive regimes often start with the low-hanging fruit, the most extreme or least widely accepted groups and then move from there. Banning JWs is the thin edge of the wedge, and other groups, who think they are safe, had better take stock because they're next.
Issues like the blood ban, shunning and other more harmful practices can be addressed via a range of other means, through exposure, law suits and other less draconian measures which do not need to issue from Big Brother.
Another thing: if you are for banning JWs, would you have wanted to go to jail when you were a believing JW? Would that really have helped you to wake up?
I hate organised religion but freedom of religion and freedom of thought are fundamental rights.
The WTS shouldn't be allowed to wallow in victimhood (which is what they'll do if they are banned in Russia).
I think the Russians should copy the ARC investigation into religious groups and go after the JWs that way - blood, paedo issue and shunning are the most harmful and are more than enough for the Russian gov to be getting on with.
In the meantime, sunlight is the best disinfectant (I've borrowed this from somebody - I think FMF might've said it on another thread). Let the WTS fall due to all the rest of its ridiculous doctrines - overlapping generations, seven gentile times, creationism & literal global flood, the works!
