What resurrects, the person or a perfect copy?

by JH 99 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  JH

  I remember my boss asking me once this question, since he knew I was a witness. He asked, "what resurrects, the body, the soul, what?

  He knew that witnesses believe in the resurrection of the dead on earth, in a different physical body during the millennium.

  I told him that it won't be the same physical body, and maybe won't be identical, but it's the same person. So then he said "what part of the person resurrects, since it's not the same body"? Since the person is dead, and doesn't exist anymore, and now that person only exists in God's memory, how do we know it's the same person who will resurrect?

  What he wanted to know was, what part of us comes back to life, since everything was destroyed at death like we preached? So, if something came back to life, then it wasn't totally destroyed, just like the devil said.

  How would you have answered him, in you dub days?
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  AlanF

  I would have argued that the resurrected person was the same person as the original because God declared it so. But that doesn't work.

  JWs actually believe that God will make an identical copy of the person as he or she was at the time of death, complete with memories and all other personality traits unique to that individual. Problem is, the copy is still a copy -- a clone, really -- and a copy, no matter how perfect, is not the original. Even if you could make an identical copy of say, a written letter, and you destroyed the original, the copy would still be a copy. And if you could electronically record every detail of the original, then destroy the original and later reproduce an identical copy from the stored information, you'd still just have a copy. Even if God himself declared that the copy was the original, it wouldn't be so.

  Same goes with people. JWs will argue, "No, God can do anything", but that doesn't cut it. This is easy to show. Suppose God, right now, made a perfectly identical copy of you and stood him right next to you. Being a perfect copy, the copy would think he was the original. But he wouldn't be the original. You are the original. Even if God declared that the copy is the orginal, it wouldn't be so. Now extend the analogy a bit. Suppose God made 10 perfect copies. All of them would think they were the original, and all of them would be wrong. Now extend the analogy again. Suppose God perfectly recorded in his memory every detail of you. You die and and no longer exist for say, a million years. God then creates 10 identical copies of you, all of whom think they're the original. But none of them are. Now suppose that God creates just one perfect copy a million years hence. That would still not be the original you, just as none of the 10 would have been you. Therefore, if you go completely out of existence, you cannot be resurrected. A copy can be made, that that's not a resurrection. For a true resurrection to occur, there must be physical continuity of some aspect of a person's existence.

  This thoroughly disproves the JW notion of either the resurrection, or of their claim that when you die you go completely out of existence, or both.

  AlanF
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  RunningMan

  Witnesses always give the example of a tape recorder. Jehovah, the great tape recorder, can reproduce the person in complete, perfect, detail. Since the soul is you, and you are dead, then your soul is dead. So, the question is: is the soul brought back, or is it recreated? and, does it matter? It's really just symantics.

  Knowing what I know now, it's not worth the effort to untangle.

  JWs are very good at playing with words. For example, i f Jesus is present, then he must have already come. If his coming is still future, then he is not present. He cannot be present, while his coming is future. Yet, t hat?s what they tell us.
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  Aztec

  Aaahh! We'd all be surrounded by Duncan Idaho gholas. *Waits to see if anyone gets her lame Science Fiction reference*

  ~Aztec
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  Simon

  A bit off topic but has anyone seen that cartoon about the scientist who invents a tranporter? I think it's by the Film board of Canada.

  Basically, the premise was that people went in one box and then were transported to another.

  Someone challenged him and he admitted that what actually happened was that it made an exact copy and then destroyed the original.

  When the destruction bit was turned off, sure enough, two of the scientists emerged.

  The scientist was then adamant that he was the original and the other was a fake ... until it was pointed out that because he was the original then he was the one who should be destroyed in accordance with his machine.

  No point to the story really but it was a great short film and shows that a copy is never the same, however exact it is ... ask anyone who collects anything valuable and they'll tell you the same thing.
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  simplesally

  Simon, there is a book called Timeline, and now it should be a movie by now, by Michael Crighton. The same premise: the transporter transmits the information and then a new body is replicated, the original is destroyed.
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  IronGland

  I never had a problem with the copy vs. original. Phsically after a certain period of time, none of us are 'original' anymore. It's our brain that makes us who we are, if that is reproduced exactly, down to the quantum state of every atom in my brain at the moment I died, thats resurrection in my book.
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  RunningMan

  Intestingly, Aztec, I was thinking precisely of Duncan Idaho as I read this thread.
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  marsal

  Alan F. (or anyone else that can answer this),

  I don't really remember what JWs teach about Jesus' resurrection. Do they teach that he was truly resurrected or that a copy of him was recreated?

  I never thought of this particular teaching of theirs until I saw this thread.
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  Aztec

  Yes! Science Fiction fans of the world unite! After reading Alan's comment all I could think of was Duncan Idaho...LOL!

  ~Aztec