Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver 130 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Richard Oliver

  Do I wish that I could have a husband and be a witness? I think that would be a factor for me to go back to being a witness. I personally view those things that Paul highlighted as not inheriting the kingdom only applies to the Anointed and not to all Christians. But I know that, no matter what I want, Watchtower is not going to change their opinion. But I also feel that you don't have to be a witness at the point of Armageddon but that Jehovah is the only judge that matters at that time. Do I believe in a lot of the other tenants of Witnesses? I do. But I can't be a witness if I want to have the love of another man in my life, so I live as close to being a witness as possible except for this one thing.

  That is what drew me here to this site. I wanted to know what the actual policy changes are for witnesses so that I could live as close to their standard as possible, but since I can't be one, there would be things that I miss in their policies and thinking.
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  Richard Oliver

  Well Outlaw. You talk about that is my evidence. Your evidence is non-existant as well. Again this is a perspective thing. I have my opinion. You have your opinion. Do I think that you have reasons to your opinion? Yes, I do. But you also have to believe that I have reasons to my own opinion as well.

  I would tell people I loved male actors all the time but they would play it off in the same way that straight guys would say they love them too.
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  OUTLAW

  Well Outlaw. You talk about that is my evidence.

  Your evidence is non-existant as well.....RO

  Meh..

  It`s no secret JW`s can`t keep a secret,there`s plenty of evidence for that..

  You could start a thread on the subject..

  You`d ignore anything anyone had to say and it would go at least 4 pages..LOL!!
  

  
  
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  Richard Oliver

  Outlaw. You love to quote vocabulary definitions. Here is one for you:

  anecdotal evidence

  noun

  non-scientific observations or studies, which do notprovide proof but may assist research efforts

  and

  
  

  Something anecdotal has to do with anecdotes — little stories.Anecdotal evidence is based on hearsay rather than hard facts. People like to share stories about things that happened to them, or that they heard about, to make a point. That kind of talk is anecdotal: based on small, personal accounts.

  anecdotal evidence is not real proof of a fact.
  
  
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  Richard Oliver

  Outlaw. I never said that my personal experience is proof of anything other than my personal experience and how I view Witnesses and Watchtower. Again there are plenty of things that I wish Watchtower did not say or do or believe. But you want to condemn an entire group of people because of what occurred to you. What occurred to you may not have occurred to anyone else. People may not view it in the same way as you do. But you want to say that they are wrong because they don't agree with you. Watchtower and JWs do the exact same thing. So either you are better than them and accept that people have different views than you and their experiences make them see things differently or your no better than the thing that you rail against.
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  Simon

  anecdotal evidence is not real proof of a fact.

  although if you get enough anecdotes, it can become compelling evidence ...

  I've personally never understood people who want to join groups who's belief system is that "who they are" is wrong and evil.

  I understand the challenges when people are brought up in it, but once you leave, I can't imagine anything they can do that would convince anyone to go back. Surely you've seen behind the curtain and know there's no wizard? So how can changing the curtain help?
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  OUTLAW

  Anecdotal evidence

  noun

  non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts..

  We can add Reading Comprehension to your "Things to Learn" list..
  

  Reading comprehension:

  is the ability to read text, process it, and understand its meaning.
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  Richard Oliver

  Simon. I agree with you if there is a lot of the same stories it can be compelling evidence. But there is a difference between compelling circumstantial evidence and compelling objective evidence.

  In medicine, Pulmonologists treat people who come in and say that they have asthma because they feel like they can't catch their breath like their buddy, who has asthma can't. So that patient, may honestly feel that he has asthma because of the way he feels and the way he has heard his friend talk about his asthma. But the doctor won't just take the patient's word for it, and say "Well you feel you have asthma so you have asthma." No the doctor looks at the patient's subjective symptoms but also looks to measure objective symptoms, so he runs diagnostic tests to prove what the patient feels is in fact asthma or is not. If the tests come back that the patient doesn't have asthma, guess what the patient would not be diagnosed with asthma. Does the diagnosis negate the way that the patient feels in his daily activity? No, the patient still feels the same way, even though the objective tests prove that he doesn't have asthma. So what is my point. There is a difference between subjective feelings and objective facts. We all have subjective feelings that no one can take away from us, but objective things have to be proven by actual facts and data.

  Feelings have a number of factors that will adjust how an event will affect a person. And two people who go through the same event doesn't always see it in the same way or the same light. It is the acceptance that we don't view matters in the same way is what is key.
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  Richard Oliver

  Outlaw. I am not going to do this with you. You say I have straw man arguments and use the definition to prove your point. And if I argue with you, you just would bring back that same definition. I do the exact same thing to you and you can't understand the point. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence by itself, it cannot prove something when that is the only evidence you have.

  I never said that your experiences were not valid as to what you have come to a conclusion about Witnesses and Watchtower. My point was everyone has different experiences and unless it is an actual fact, all it is, is your personal experience. You want to take other people's subjective experiences away from them because they don't line up exactly with yours.
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  OrphanCrow

  Richard, I totally accept that what you have described as your subjective experience is just that - your subjective, anecdotal experience.

  Of course it is.

  What I think others, and myself, have been trying to say is that you are experiencing incongruence.