I think there will be cherry-picking until we give loyalty to God rather than to our church or to our own beliefs. We have to be willing to admit we don't know, or that we are wrong on something - then our recommendation can be for individual cherries rather than the baskets which harbour them.
Christadelphian
by Billy1000 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Sugar Shane
BILLY! Here's a great article that touches on WHY so many JWs become atheist, or agnostic, as opposed to switching to other denominations, or developing a more personal relationship with JC through the Bible. BTW: most 'mainstream' denominations do just that, try to help the believer foster a personal relationship. Few, that I've run across regard themselves as the one and only TRUE religion, though unfortunately, that's what all JWs believe about theirs. They are taught that all other churches are part of evil 'Chistandom.' They are also staunch Biblical literalists, yet the interpetations they take so literally are often twisted to begin with. Add all the Pharisee-like rules and regulations, and it's no wonder they want nothing to do with organized religion of any kind, after 'waking up.' Spiritually speaking, they've become 'damaged goods' by this time, whether they want to admit or not.
I'm a non-JW, though I have some in the family. So, I'm on the outside looking in. I do consider myself a believer in JC's sacrifice, but I don't judge. I don't shun. And some of my best buds are what you'd consider agnostic/atheist. One of them is a dog lover, and raises service dogs. Anyway, here's a link to that article:
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steve2
If Billy is cherry picking then what are doing Jwfacts? If people want to cherry pick from the bible isn't it better they pick the good over the bad?
QMI, please look up the definition of cherry-pick.
JWfacts is not trying to make the Bible either "fit" into some basis for faith or be "the word of God".
If you have to cherry pick (i.e., be highly selective in what you quote and avoid other texts that contradict and/or paint a very different picture of what the Bible is saying) to build up your faith in Scripture, what sort of faith is that?
When people claim the Bible is the word of God it is they who have to demonstrate they are not cherry-picking.
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cofty
Sugar - Some of us embraced christianity after the cult and later gave up faith as a result of following the evidence.
Dismissing exJW atheists as "damaged goods" is just a way of avoiding the fact that they might know things you don't and would prefer not to.
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Sugar Shane
I don't buy into the whole 'Noah's Flood killed the dinosaurs' thing myself. I love science. I don't take Biblical 'Fire & Brimstone' literally. I love reading Asimov, Carl Sagan, Arthur C Clarke, Kurt Vonnegut, and the like. Steven Hawkings as well: both Sci-fi & sci-fact.
I've seen plenty of scientific evidence to refute the JWs literal interpretation of the Bible, as well as the literal interpretation of certain other religions. Despite what we know about black holes, gravity waves, dark matter, gamma-ray bursts, ect., there is still room for spirituality, IMO, to help understand the wonders around us. But yeah, 6000 years of human existence, my ass. Ha.
Maybe my 'damaged goods' label was a little blunt, but the JWs I've known to 'wake up,' are pretty...rattled, for quite some time. As if they just broke out of a cacoon. The movie 'Matrix' comes to mind.
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Mephis
I'm a non-JW, though I have some in the family. So, I'm on the outside looking in. I do consider myself a believer in JC's sacrifice, but I don't judge. I don't shun. And some of my best buds are what you'd consider agnostic/atheist. One of them is a dog lover, and raises service dogs. Anyway, here's a link to that article:
http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/ex-jws-atheists/Whilst acknowledging the limits of such surveys, the polls of ex-jws online I've seen mirror within a few percentage points polls of wider society in my country. ie around a 50/50 split. (https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/).
The article is correct in one sense for my journey. The logical end point of reading the bible critically was a lack of belief in an Abrahamic god or any variation based upon it. A god who decided to ban shellfish over slavery? Really?
edit: I agree very much with several other points the author of that article makes, especially his conclusion on encouraging people to live their lives without damning them for having a belief or not, just not every point he makes in there.
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cofty
Sugar - To be honest JWs are far more likely to run towards an alternative version of christianity.
When you discover you are lost its natural to assume you are not very lost. They ring-fence things like the existence of a loving god, Jesus died for their sins, judgement of the wicked, eternal life of some sort, reliability of the bible etc.
Some go to other religions and others make up their own. We have an example on the forum right now (Acts15)
Unlike 99% of christians JWs actually have to work through their beliefs and the reasons for them in order to break free of indoctrination. Some have the courage to follow that through to its logical conclusion and discover there is no evidence for the basics that they had held onto.
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Sugar Shane
Understood, thanks
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Billy1000
Is that not what someone does to help prove a point of view, cherry pick the points that prove your point and use them
To say read the bible from cover to cover is a lot easier to say then do.
Reading evilbible.com i can understand why many people believe that God is evil, however that in itself only points out the negative, it does not mention the wonderful things, Israelis from Egypt into the promised land, saving them multiple time through Judges, his promises to David, Abraham and so on.
Then in the New Testament God literally gives his only Son to save us.
However i understand that you could only believe the above if you believe in the Bibles validity
A lot of people in this forum have obviously been hurt/shunned by people who are trying to follow what the bible teaches, so i can understand how people could get a negative view of it, it seems warranted.
However i still read the Bible in a positive light, so my view on it will obviously be a brighter one
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steve2
Billy it is more helpful to keep the issues clearcut and straightforward - rather than attempting to "fit" extensive passages of the Bible into your concept of who God is.
You will know the Old Testament is full of violence and that much of it is at the hands of Jehovah's people. How do you explain God-directed instructions for his people to wipe out entire people's in the promised land, including old men and women and babies? Today we call that "genocide".
One of the reasons people have been "able" to accept the Bible as "God's Word" is being exposed to the Bible from a very early age. If you had first come upon the Bible as an educated adult, you would be shocked by the bloody-mindedness of the God of the Bible. Blood is everywhere in its pages. People who believe the Bible have become inured to the violence in its pages and/or have learnt to justify it. It is ironic that they end up calling this God of the Bible "loving" and then explain that, despite the extreme acts of divine violence, God really loves us.