@inbetween
Exactly right, that was my point but I don’t think our learned friend will be enlightened.
I seem to recall this argument has been played out before. 🤨
Time for a shiraz,
Cheers,
Ozzie 🍷
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder 134 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Fisherman
WT publications used the expression' Gentile Times' No big deal
You keep going off into tangents.
My point from the very beginning is that the Study Bible had a reference not too long ago using the term “circa1914” and not 1914. Now, you can't find that reference anymore and the term Gentile Times has been changed to Appointment Times of the Nations in the latest NWT Bible translation. Obviously, Appointed Times or Gentile Times are referring to the same event no matter what you call it. I was just pointing out that your used of the word “fact” to describe 1914 vis-à-vis WT use of the word “circa” and then the article being taken down.
The B1 Appendix you reference explains that “about 1914” refers to the ousting of Satan and the Insight Book explains that 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times. So nothing seems to have changed about our beliefs 1914 except maybe the time for tte ousting of Satan. The insight book uses the term historical fact referring to our 1880 WT article predicting 1914 not to be confused with 1914 the end of Gentile Times being a historical fact. I am probably wrong about what I concluded when reading the circa 1914 commentary in the Study Bible but I would like to see the article again a read it again. Based on our understanding of Bible chronology, 4026 in the creation of Adam, 1975 is 6000 years later and 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times that Jesus alluded to in Luke. The premise we use is interpretation of Bible chronology and the year 607 as the exact date of tge destruction of Jerusalem. The extrapolation of 1914 is derived from that.
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scholar
Fisherman
My point from the very beginning is that the Study Bible had a reference not too long ago using the term “circa1914” and not 1914. Now, you can't find that reference anymore and the term Gentile Times has been changed to Appointment Times of the Nations in the latest NWT Bible translation. Obviously, Appointed Times or Gentile Times are referring to the same event no matter what you call it. I was just pointing out that your used of the word “fact” to describe 1914 vis-à-vis WT use of the word “circa” and then the article being taken down.
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Where exactly in the Study Bible is that reference for the only place I could find was in the Appendix of the NWT 2013? The fact of 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times or Appointed Times of the nations is established by means of Chronology and the fulfilment of prophecy in modern history.
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The B1 Appendix you reference explains that “about 1914” refers to the ousting of Satan and the Insight Book explains that 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times. So nothing seems to have changed about our beliefs 1914 except maybe the time for tte ousting of Satan. The insight book uses the term historical fact referring to our 1880 WT article predicting 1914 not to be confused with 1914 the end of Gentile Times being a historical fact. I am probably wrong about what I concluded when reading the circa 1914 commentary in the Study Bible but I would like to see the article again a read it again. Based on our understanding of Bible chronology, 4026 in the creation of Adam, 1975 is 6000 years later and 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times that Jesus alluded to in Luke. The premise we use is interpretation of Bible chronology and the year 607 as the exact date of tge destruction of Jerusalem. The extrapolation of 1914 is derived from that.
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Exactly, Well put.
scholar JW
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scholar
inbetween
You are moving the goal posts. It is true, that the war declaration followed gradually after 28.7.14, however, accoring to JW theology, it was Satan inciting them to do so, after his expelling from heaven. If he was expelled October 1914, what was his job when the whole world was already in conflict? The typical trench warfare began already in September 1914...the chain reaction of Alliances, formed decades earlier, started to cascade already---
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There is no need to move the goalposts as these are well fixed and placed in terms of biblical theology and modern history.
October 1914 we have the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom.
After that the war in heaven broke out and Satan was ousted out of heaven to caiuse much trouble on earth this was visibley manifest by the Great War followed by other troubles since 1914 which began the parousia with all of its signs right up to the present.
The Bible does not mention the Great War as a specific event but we see by looking back in modern history that the Great War certainly is consistent with the fulfilment of prophecy.
scholar JW
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ozziepost
Scholar
one last time (for old times sake 🙃)
After that the war in heaven broke out and Satan was ousted out of heaven to caiuse much trouble on earth this was visibley manifest by the Great War followed by other troubles since 1914 which began the parousia with all of its signs right up to the present.
The Bible does not mention the Great War as a specific event but we see by looking back in modern history that the Great War certainly is consistent with the fulfilment of prophecy.All history books give July as the start date. What more is needed?
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Fisherman
All history books give July as the start date. What more is needed?
However, according to JW understanding of Bible prophecy, Gentile Times ended on Oct 1 1914, and JW say WWI is evidence of that whether or not historical books say WWI started on another month. At what point in time could it officially be said that WWI actually started or what standard should be used or what is the criteria is arguable —and could be in Oct depending on the standard. Albeit-any other month believed to be start of the war, according to JWinterpretation of the prophecy Gentile Times end in October 1914.
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ozziepost
Fisherman
owyergoin? 👋
The discrepancy or otherwise in the Gentile Times is a side-alley for me, despite me highlighting it over the years with Scholar.
The Gentile Times may be of interest to those of the end Times variety but not to mainstream Christianity- they’ve got it sorted.
However, for end Timers it’s relevant to point out and especially to Dubs the seeming discrepancy in their own teaching.
Cheers,
Ozzie 🍷
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scholar
0zziepost
All history books give July as the start date. What more is needed?
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A more honest interpretation of history as represented by the Australian author, Paul Ham in his 1914 The Year The World Ended. published in 2013.
scholar JW
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scholar
Fisherman
However, according to JW understanding of Bible prophecy, Gentile Times ended on Oct 1 1914, and JW say WWI is evidence of that whether or not historical books say WWI started on another month. At what point in time could it officially be said that WWI actually started or what standard should be used or what is the criteria is arguable —and could be in Oct depending on the standard. Albeit-any other month believed to be start of the war, according to JWinterpretation of the prophecy Gentile Times end in October 1914.
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What matters is not the beginning of the Great War but the fact that it appeared on the world in its full capacity as a true world war after the end of the Gentile Times in October 1914.
scholar JW
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scholar
ozziepost
The Gentile Times may be of interest to those of the end Times variety but not to mainstream Christianity- they’ve got it sorted.
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Interestingly it was the case that leading clergy of Christendom proclaimed the end of the Gentile Times in 1917 so at that time the Gentile Times was important teaching having theological significance also encouraged by the scholarship of C. I. Scofield in his famous Scofield Reference Bible first published in 1909.
scholar JW