My talk today with my JW neighbor

by bebu 29 Replies latest jw experiences

  • bebu
    bebu

    I had a very good conversation with my JW friend today. It arose out of my invitation to our yearly Friendship Service at church this Sunday. She was so nice, but said it might prove difficult, since JWs made a specific commitment to Jehovah, and the doctrine of our church was trinitarian and she would feel very uncomfortable.

    Then she asked me who I thought God was. I didn't want to get into a big debate here, and deflected this. We had been there before. She asked me what my churches core beliefs were. I told her that theology was important, but there were so many levels in it. There was a time I used to think that the narrowest point of Christian theology could be explained in 3 or 4 points. (I still believe in these points, btw.) However, the lowest common denominator I could bring Biblical theology to was that we need to have faith that God is good and loves us; Christ is our proof of this; and we must love God with our whole hearts, etc. I told her that unitarians didn't believe in the trinity, and I had exchanges with a unitarian online (Little Toe ) and I could share common ground with him because he truly loved and trusted God. There were a lot of other things along these lines that we discussed. I told her that if I were right about the trinity, I still assumed that I would be able to meet JWs in heaven, who loved God with all their hearts, as they got the most important point right. (I told her that this is why I could feel a connection to her--that I felt she really wanted with her whole heart to know and love God.)

    She considered this, but then countered that it was necessary to worship God in spirit and in truth. I asked, "You mean, to be 100% correct in theology?" She agreed it was necessary, as the Bible never changed. I asked her how JWs at the beginning of the century, celebrating holidays, had 100% correct theology... Well, you can guess how she replied, that they did the best with what they had (which had actually been MY point earlier in the conversation...!) I reminded her that the Bible never changed, so how could there be changes. She told me that we learn more as we study the Bible.

    "Only the Bible"

    "Yes."

    "But what about the WT?".

    She launched into the F&D slave--who is it?

    I answered that it was Christian leadership in general. She then began to ask me about how I could think the Christian church was preaching the kingdom, teaching morals, with the shame of the Catholic priest sex scandal, etc. How could these people ever be associated with the real F& D slave?

    Well, I finally let her know. (I have avoided giving information about the darker side of the WT which has been piling up over here on my computer, because she was going thru such an emotionally difficult time with separating from her husband. She was very frail.) After the comment she made about the priests, I asked, "Are you not aware of the WT's own sex scandal?" She looked at me cynically. So I launched in, and summarized the Dateline show, how victims who came to elders were not helped because there weren't 2 witnesses; told to confront their abuser; advised not to tell anyone, not even the police, etc. And the ones who did, were disfellowshiped. I then asked her if she knew about Vicki Boer. Of course, she didn't. I went into her story, about how last June Vicki won $5000 settlement in Canada from the WT for their poor counseling, and then the WT sued her for $142,000 in their lawyers fees (which was not a requirement of Canadian law, but an option the WT had in this situation).

    She never interrupted me, but listened very carefully. Slowly, she told me should would certainly look into these things. I told her I would give her any specific names, dates, news articles, etc., that I have found. I told her I knew where to find the Dateline show online, and she could watch it. She said she wanted to learn more about this. (I also explained why I didn't tell her these things earlier, due to her trials in life.)

    God bless her, she then looked at me so seriously, and told me that she really loved me. She apologized that I was so upset. (I was rather excited, I guess; my heart was beating fast, anyway.) She was very serious. She hugged me, and told me that I was her dearest friend, and she wanted me to always be free to share ANYTHING with her. We hugged so many times before she left.

    I wanted to write this down and share it, before I forget any of it. I can't tell you how much I value my friendship with her, but I've tried.

    bebu

  • Dawn
    Dawn

    Wow bebu - that is terrific! Great job - you shared the most important piece of information - that God loves her and that you could tell she loved him. Regardless of whether she accepts anything else you told her, that one point will stick with her and help her.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Congratulations bebu. It is always good news to hear of a Witness learning a bit of truth about the "truth". She sounds like a caring person and good friend. Be gentle with her as you have been. Move slow as this could be pulling the rug from under her entire life. Always place your friendship first over any hopes or agenda of changing her. j

  • ESTEE
    ESTEE

    Great job bebu!!!

    ESTEE

  • bebu
    bebu

    Thanks, Dawn! It was quite a conversation!

    My husband pointed out 1 Cor. 13:to me, as the better interpreter of what worshiping God in truth entails (better than a 100% test score on your theology quiz):

    1CO 13:1

    If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing...

    1CO 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    1CO 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    Perfect knowledge (i.e., theology) will 'disappear'--not because it is unimportant, but because it recedes into the shadows before something even more perfect, which is love. It will not be a concern, because we will know God utterly, together, and we simply won't need to discuss it.

    bebu

  • bebu
    bebu

    Thanks JamesT and Estee!

    Always place your friendship first over any hopes or agenda of changing her.

    Yes, James, I TOTALLY agree with you!! Even if she never leaves the JWs, she will ALWAYS remain my dear friend. Otherwise, my love for her even now is false.

    bebu

  • rocketman
    rocketman

    Very nice post bebu, it will be interesting to see what comes of this, if anything, eventually. Let us know please.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Bebu, you did great. It is very possible that you will save this person from a cult.

  • DJ
    DJ

    ((((((((((((bebu))))))))) wonderful! It always surprises me when I think back to the time when my jw sister disagreed with me when I told her that love was the most important thing. She claimed that "one needs accurate knowledge not love". I will never forget that. We are supposed to worship in deed (love) and truth ( Jesus is the truth). I hope that one day your friend will come to see that for her own happiness. I know that you would be overjoyed too! Thanks for the story. love, dj

  • BLISSISIGNORANCE
    BLISSISIGNORANCE

    Great experience Bebu!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing.

    As I posted last week, a similair situation.

    Building blocks of truth can help people who are searching for the real truth to leave. We never know.

    Well done

    Cheers, Bliss

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