Nathan:
You really have no way of knowing what stevieb1 had in mind when he made his post, do you? So why do you presume to chastise us?
Was I chastising you? That wasn't my intent. I was expressing something that I have found to be personally frustrating, and that has caused me to spend less time posting here. I guess it came out now because, as I said, I discussed it with others at the ex-JW conference, and found that there are several who were having exactly the same feelings as me.
There are a lot of unxtian comments to stevieb1 's post for one simple reason - there are more unxtians here than xtians. Unxtians have a right to express their opinions too, don't they? So what are you so troubled by?
I might wonder whether the fact that there are more unChristians than Christians here is the cause or the effect? I've spoken to a number of Christians who have withdrawn from posting here, either largely or entirely, just because of the reason that I've described. Sure, you guys have a right to your opinion, too. But some of us get the feeling that you guys are like a roving gang, out to disrupt any thread in which you disagree with the premise. The original topic of the thread gets lost, and you have effectively hijacked it to yet another atheist vs. Christian debate.
You think you have the truth? You've got the spiritual armor? Fine - make your case and win the argument.
I have repeatedly made my case in this forum. Winning the argument isn't an option, if the only possible proof of God for some would be to put Him into a test tube. But, yes, I think if you'll browse through my posts, you'll find that I have endeavored to "fight the good fight" here. The problem isn't that I'm unwilling to discuss the issues, it's that recently, every discussion seems to get turned to the same issue. Do you guys have the right to do it? Sure. If a bunch of Christians were having a Bible study in a public park, you'd have every right to disrupt the study by gathering around them in a public place and ridiculing their belief. It just wouldn't be very polite, that's all. The first few times you did it, they might even be willing to discuss the issue of whether there is a God with you. But at some point, they also want to sit down with fellow Christians and study their Bibles in a positive atmosphere. And, if the interference happened enough times, pretty soon the Christians would find somewhere else to have their Bible study. Do you really want to change the name of this board to atheist-exjws.com?
Isn't it inconsistent for people who feel they are "called" to be persecuted for his name's sake to whine when their irrational and unrealistic beliefs are challenged? Where is your "good cheer'? Is not your deliverance drawing nigh?
I have never whined when my beliefs were challenged. Go back through my posts. I have defended my faith over and over again, against atheists, Muslims, JW's, in some cases, even fellow Christians, and many others. I just think that when a post asks a question from a Christian or spiritual viewpoint, it might be nice if the unbelievers would allow the question to be answered from the same viewpoint, rather than immediately hijacking the thread. If you were having a thread in which you discussed the mechanics of evolution, I wouldn't feel compelled (along with 10 or 15 of my Christian friends) to overwhelm the thread with quotes from Genesis. All I'm suggesting is that you guys offer the same courtesy in the other direction. It isn't that we're necessarily unwilling to discuss the issue of whether there is a God, we just don't want to discuss it in every single thread.
gumby:
Madman......you were set free from one organisation and still held by another.... and don't know it. You are "bound" to Jesus just like you were "bound to the Organisation. If you disagree with him or disbelieve in him.........you are toast forever. What's the difference?
Let's see, then. I guess that means that the only way I can truly be free is to come into the light of the one true religion, atheism, and to foist my beliefs onto others whenever an opportunity presents itself. Tell me again how I'm the one who hasn't left the cult? And, if you're truly an atheist, aren't you "toast forever" whether you're right or wrong (at least in the sense of being annihilated, like the JW's teach)?
My relationship with Jesus is nothing like my relationship to the organization. Not even close. First off, it's not dependent on any human authority. It's strictly spiritual in nature. I attend a church and participate in various things because I choose to; the minute the church starts to make my life miserable, I won't be there any more, and I don't have to worry about losing my family or friends. But why am I explaining? You know all this, I suspect. You just believe, in the final analysis, that you have found the true religion, and I haven't, right?
donkey:
All evidence you present would indicate that God is a figment of YOUR imagination.
Not sure how to answer this, since I haven't attempted to present any evidence in this thread as to the existence of God. Also, I'm pretty sure from my reading of history that people believed in God before I was born, so I think He must have come from somewhere other than my imagination.
I am not attacking YOU - I am questioning your ideas based upon what I read on the screen. Can you see the issue? Rather than say Honest Discussion should you more accurately say Sincere Dicussion?
I know that you are not attacking me, and I hope that no one here thinks that I am attacking them. I'm not mad at any of you guys, really. But I have found the conditions on this forum frustrating in recent times, and so have others. I just decided to pipe up about it. And sure, I'll buy the term, Sincere Discussion as opposed to Honest Discussion. I understand that you guys are sincere about your beliefs, too, and I respect that. This is not a call for all atheist/Christian exchange to stop; I just think that there are appropriate and inappropriate times for it, and lately, some of us feel that you guys aren't willing to allow us to talk about anything else.
Now I know you might feel I am picking on your words - and I would sincerely say I AM. Why? Because they show how a Christian (I used to be one) has the mindset that they are RIGHT. They believe very deeply that they are right - so self convincingly that they believe their beliefs are undisputed facts.
Do only Christians have the mindset that they are right? Don't atheists believe that they are right? I recall a case in the news a while ago of a college professor who would not give a recommendation to any student who in any way indicated the possibility of a Creator of any sort, when the professor asked how the student believed that the universe originated. Did that professor believe that his viewpoint was right? I think he did. Obviously, in any belief that we hold, we think that we are right. I think I'm right when I say that the sky is blue and the moon is not made of green cheese. I also think I'm right when I say that Jesus Christ died for my sins. The difference is that you would likely agree with me about the first two, but disagree on the third. That's ok; I can live with that. Can you?
All:
Note that I have not responded to direct challenges made in this thread about the existence of God. Sorry; I'm just not in the mood to have that discussion (again) now. Besides, for me to get into that would only divert attention from the point I originally jumped into this thread to make.
