Short update(s) on my neighbor

by bebu 34 Replies latest jw experiences

  • bebu
    bebu

    My neighbor didn't come on time, and her line was busy, so I went over to see if there was a problem. She was cheerfully eating lunch, and by the time she finally made it over to my place it was 1 1/2 hours late. Oh well, at least she came!

    She brought a printout from her elder (an old friend of her husband's ) from the media site of the WT. On paper, it was putting the best face forward, and explained that the Bible's rules were to prevent unfair punishment. We talked about the policies of the WT, and she felt she had to agree with the WT that punishing a person on the testimony of less than 2 witnesses was wrong. Also, that the elders must recognize the difficulty of their position. I asked her about "other" kinds of testimony: affadavits? DNA evidence? Doctor's verification that a victim was molested?

    I pointed out that in the Bible, if a new husband complained that his wife was not a virgin, there was a bedcloth which had a purpose to prove/disprove any contention about this. It was not a person, but it was evidence that was considered enough for a conviction or acquittal, like a second witness. I asked, why have the elders never considered that there are other evidences available, or pursued them in order to determine the truth of a claim?

    I told her that the biggest issue is not that there are molesters in the KHs, and though their policies about 2 required eye-witnesses being required may severely hamper justice, I was even willing to extend some forgiveness toward them if they were honestly doing what they thought was best, though these policies were awful. The thing that boiled my blood was that, in their supposed efforts to make sure an accused abuser was not treated unjustly, the purported victims were treated as guilty of slander simply by going to the police--a "right" that the WT media release claimed any victim could excercise. Even if they won their court case, the victim, not the abuser, was guilty. I told her that the only consistent "rule" that the elders were applying was to tell victims to "shut up!", and not really caring about the victim as they claimed.

    I reminded her that the Dateline program's recording of the legal dept. advised the elder to just walk away as soon as an abuser insisted that he was innocent; how is that policy demonstrating a determined desire to protect children, or demonstrate abhorring child abuse? Reality contradicts their press releases.

    One thing that seemed to impress her was that it was through the internet that victims came forward, who had no idea that there were other victims, and 5000+ all were telling the same story: shut up, don't go to the police or you will be disfellowshiped. This was not an anomoly, but a policy.

    I see her wavering--a little. She is having some real cognitive dissonance, but she is still very sure that Jehovah is going to make sure justice is done. I commented, "Perhaps news stories like this are Jehovah's method!" She is looking for any strong branch to hang on to.

    She had to go to a counseling session by 4:00, but wants to return tonight to watch more clips. I think she likes watching videos on computer. She hasn't got her TV cable installed, so I guess this (even in poor pixels) is good. I wrote down the address (www.dirtclod.com) for her to give to her elder, as she wants him to watch the video. She also thought a transcript would be helpful for her to be sure she understood all the points. (I have one ready now, actually.)

    Communication is flowing freely. Hugs, too.

    bebu

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    You have a deer eating out of your hand. Good job!

  • kj
    kj

    You go girl! Thanks for the update

    kj

  • bebu
    bebu

    Alright, tonight was quite interesting. She came early and had dinner with us. She brought a liter of beer, and drank it all! I guess she knew she was going to need it... (& I don't blame her.)

    I gave her the transcript from the Dateline program, and also a press release from last year from Silent Lambs, revealing the fate of the people who spoke out against the WT policies (all disfellowhiped!). She read thru the press release after dinner. Then we repaired to the computer room for another video.

    We watched another video, the last in the row (JWD's Jessika's story, I believe).

    She is still searching for a good "explanation". Sometimes she began to repeat the need to wait on Jehovah, like it's a mantra, or tried to defend the elders by saying they had to stay within Biblical parameters. I politely disagree with this; I compare the Catholic sex abuse scandal to the WT's by saying, alright, they both had sexual abusers. Alright, they both did a poor job of helping victims and protecting others from being victims. But the Catholic church didn't excommunicate any, let alone all the boys who spoke out or brought charges!! I had to repeat this point to her a few times, and it seemed to shatter her argument each time I repeated it. So this was a very effective way to make the point about the shamefully unfair treatment of victims, and she had NO ANSWER, but shook her head helplessly, shrugged her shoulders, and looked at me like, "what can I say???"

    At one point she rebounded a little, and told me that in her own difficult situation, she has learned that she has to wait on Jehovah. She got a little excited and began to expound about how Witnesses must do this, and non-Witnesses can't understand how important this is. It is required! I said, that might be fine for YOU; however, you are the only victim in your situation, and you are an adult who can make choices. Then I looked her dead in the eye, and fervently said the second thing that stopped her short :

    THERE IS NO BIBLICAL SUPPORT AT ALL FOR SILENCE OR WAITING ON JEHOVAH WHENEVER A CHILD REPORTS BEING MOLESTED! NONE AT ALL! NONE! You can not point to one verse to support this teaching! It is Biblically indefensible!!!!

    (My eyes could have drilled holes thru the back of her head. I have never spoken to her like this before. --OH, but I am so upset thinking about this evil teaching, I am still wanting to bellow this out again and again AND AGAIN.) .

    .....Back to normal volumes, now.......

    She stared at me, and then turned her eyes away and looked down quietly. She knows that I am absolutely right. She didn't dare try to defend waiting again; I suspect she felt ashamed. --But if she ever does try to talk about "waiting", I'm ready.

    Sooo... She recovered, and then asked me a few questions about Bill Bowen: how did he get involved? Etc. I gave her a sketchy account, and she wanted to know what process Bill went thru in trying to get the WT's attention to the problem ("There are processes that elders follow in the org, did he not use them?". I don't know yet what he did, exactly; I'm hoping it will be spelled out on Silentlambs.org. (Y'all can give me links if you know them...)

    Another question she asked, and I would like to know answers as well: what precise evidence can convict a molester in court, when there are no eye-witnesses? Of course, DNA; but if there is no DNA and the event was several years ago, then what things tilt the argument toward the accuser such that s/he wins the case? It must be convincing evidence, certainly! I don't want to guess at this and give her bad info.

    This woman truly abhors child abuse very deeply--I guess I'm lucky: she's been seeing a counselor for group sessions, and a couple weeks ago they had a video dealing with sexual abuse victims which simply tore her apart, so she's even more understanding and sensitive to abused children's plight.) She's also understandably distraught that such a glaring discrepancy could possibly exist in this, her beloved organization.

    She could be going thru some real consternation right now. I do hope so.

    BTW: I related an incident in our church 3 years ago where a man was arrested for sexually abusing another girl in our church (but not at the church). I told her the process: the girl told the mom, the mom came to the minister, the minister (not group of elders) called in the accused and the man confessed. At that very meeting, the minister gently told the man (who was completely distraught with remorse) that he knew that the only right action was to go to turn himself in to the police. The minister said, "brother, I'll be glad to go in with you to help you do what you need to do." The man is now in prison. The church now has background checks for all nursery workers (the guy wasn't a nursery worker, btw), and should there be a suspected abuser, families are not left in the dark: the children's ministry director would directly contact parents to alert them of a suspected child abuser, and advise them. WT: GET A CLUE.

    Very long post. But it's cathartic for me to relate it. Thanks for reading.

    bebu

    Edited to add:

    Oh, and she left with honest hugs and smiles. She said the conversations are certainly interesting! And so, in spite of a couple of powerful/intense moments, there is a lot of candor and trust... Hmmm... Wonder if anyone here can relate...?

  • morty
    morty

    keep up the good work bebu....your hard work may pay off....

    mortons68

  • acsot
    acsot

    Bebu:

    Thank you for relating this! I just had to read it before grabbing my coffee and heading out to work. Good for you, I hope your poor neighbour is able to take the blinders off and see what is really happening.

  • kj
    kj

    Keep up the good work! I really hope that God will open her eyes. Thank you for sharing.

    kj

  • garybuss
    garybuss



    Interesting! The Witnesses do not actually practice the "Wait on Jehovah" doctrine. If their car breaks, they take it to a mechanic, they do not wait on Jehovah. If they are hungry, they go to a restaurant and order from the menu, they do not wait on Jehovah. If they are sick, they go to the doctor, they do not wait on Jehovah. If their Kingdom Hall or their house is on fire, they call the fire department, they do not wait on Jehovah.

    "Wait on Jehovah", is only used when they need a conversation stopper and they need to be back in control. If your Witness friend knows of any Witness who waited on Jehovah when their house was on fire or when they were having a heart attack, I'd like to know about it. I think you need to deal with this doctrine with her right up front and put it down in a way that she can't use it any more. GaryB

  • FreeFallin
    FreeFallin

    What a wonderful account! Thank you for relating it to us. I especially liked the part about there being absolutely no biblical scripture to support "wait on Jehovah" when is child is molested. That point needs to be driven home to every Jehovah's Witness. Please keep us informed of your progress.

    FreeFallin

  • mizpah
    mizpah

    bebu:

    You've made some excellent points that can not be ignored. I'm sure your neighbor is giving the entire subject some serious thought.

    "Waiting on Jehovah" is an excuse. It's a feeble attempt to put the responsibility upon God that should be handled by the individual or organization. It's rather odd that the Watchtower Society didn't "wait on Jehovah" for many of its decisions and rules. The organization goes ahead with its arbitrary decisions even when scriptural proof is lacking.

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