Short update(s) on my neighbor (page 3)

Bebu, Witnesses have used other retreats on me as well. One common one is when they are trapped in one of their salvation doctrines, they will say, "Only Jehovah knows.". They will also use that one to get out of a discussion on the shunning practice. Any time they go to an alignment with Biblical text or become practical, they are in retreat because the Watch Tower religion has a spin on all Biblical texts and is very impractical.

When they talk about love or Jesus, they are in retreat. Their actual party line is hate and division. Love is a doctrine but not a practice. They actually follow the insecurity, rage, and immaturity modeled by the invisible God of the Jews and look forward with anticipation to his next act of genocide. The kindness, acceptance, and contempt for religious authority modeled by Jesus is actually ignored by the Watch Tower Witnesses. They will not spend much time on the topic of Jesus, they will jump to Paul and then unto the Old Testament. When they go to Paul, they are back on the offensive.

Interesting thread, Thanks! GaryB

qwerty

Good Luck with your JW friend Bebu.

Garybuss........ Thanks for you reasoning on JW mindset, good stuff.

Qwerty

Panda

bebu, How I wish that more dubs would listen to your wisdom. I enjoyed reading your account and hope you have got this sisters little grey cells working overtime. Before I DA'd a good friend kept telling me that I should wait on Jehovah --- Paduan's list would've come in handy.

Special K

Hi Bebu..

I so much enjoy that you keep us up to date on how this is going with your neighbour.

It give's me hope.

I was impressed by Gary Buss's comments on the "waiting on Jehovah" phrase that your neighbour keeps using. He's right.

Again.. from that "Releasing the Bonds" Book I told you about. It speaks about ones who are under mind control being gradually taught a "loaded language". You are probably aware of some of the J.W.'s loaded language.. such as .. they call it the "truth". and they all refer to each other as "brothers and sisters".. and there are many more. when you refer to your religion as the "Truth" then what does that leave all other religions to be.. false?.. . Black and white. Us and them. Satan vs Jehovah. Always brothers and sisters...promotes a level of trust far higher than just someone you meet. Little kids at a kingdom hall gradually taught to trust everyone who is there like a brother or sister... set up for child and their parents to trust every J.W. this way.. Great for Child Molesters though.

Anyways.. the book also refers to followers of a cult gradually acquiring "thought stopping" phrases.

When they start feeing anything negative about their organization they automatically shut those down with such thought stopping phrases.

J.W.'s are infamous for these thought stopping phrases.."wait on Jehovah".. STOP !! throws them into an automatic halt. or

"jehovah will work it out in due time" STOP !!

a new belief or change emerges and you here..."the light gets brighter". STOP !!

These phrases almost act like brakes on the mind. Can not go there...

Keep it up BeBu.. your an inspiration.

The book says

"Thought stopping is used by the cult identity to block out any idea, statement, or piece of information that challenges the group's doctrine or leadership."

"If you find you have inadvertently triggered a thought-stopping technique, you basically have two choices: be patient and wait for the process to end (it usually is over in minutes), or try to distract and interrupt it." I think you used the face to face and interrupted it.. by telling about the young child needing to wait... kind of quickly pulled her out of that thought stop thing.

Great work bebu.

sincerely

Special K

czarofmischief

Well, I've pooped. I'm waiting on Jehovah to wipe my bum. The neighbors are complaining about the smell of my garbage and the cats are committing suicide rather than use their overflowing litterbox, but Jehovah should be along any day now to clean the place up - and my wife is having sex with the mailman right in front of me, but Jehovah's going to resolve that situation in his own due time, and I'm bored with the TV program, and I've already finished this page in the book in front of me, but I'm waiting on Jehovah to entertain me in the New System.

I guess my cholera is just Jehovah's way of dealing with the situation.

CZAR-kastic Klass-master

shotgun

Hi again Bebu

I thought of something you maybe able to use. My wife believes there are only two choices, Jah and the JW's or Satan and the world. Good/bad...right/wrong...true/false. I asked her then if there are only two choices which side would false teachings fall under....she said the false side Satans of course.

Ok ...Does that mean when we taught that the Great Pyramid was an instrument used by Jah and could be used to decipher when the end would come, which side were we on. She said that's different..funny I said because it was taught as truth up to 1928 then it was taught thereafter it was a teaching of the Devil. So that means we had been promoting a teaching of the Devil as truth for 50 yrs.

When we taught the bible clearly pointed to the res of Abram, Isaak ..etc and the end in 1925 as truth which side was that teaching on true/false. When that phrophecy failed Rutherford held onto that false teaching until his death in 1942.

If we were to examine truths taught today and they could not stand up to scrutiny and were false which side would they have been serving Jehovah's or Satans.

These are just a few thoughts, your doing fine without any help. Keep treading lightly Bebu your doing great so far.

bebu

You all have been REALLY HELPFUL to me. I thank you for all your valuable insights .

I've been thinking...

...Last year I watched a show on the Discovery Channel on diamonds, and learned something interesting. Several years ago when the largest diamond in the world was finally cut by the world's pre-eminent diamond cutter, he had spent 18 months taking MRIs and CAT scans or whatever those guys use to understand the inner structures of this rock, studying it intensely. If he made a mistake with his first strike, he would have had 2 diamonds of much smaller size and much less value than the one largest diamond possible from the rock--which would also become the largest diamond in the world. He hit it perfectly! (Inspiring!)

I feel often like I am the diamond cutter right now, pondering carefully each move, analyzing and researching to understand what will strike best and not shatter. The first strike went well, and so did the second. Before each exchange I realize that I must really be "treading lightly" still, and not just imagine that I can now freely mow her down with info overload.

My prep has been like this: We had one very long discussion about 1 year ago, and it went very well. If nothing else, it established to her that I was willing to listen and judge points as fairly as I could, even as I disagreed. Also, that discussions like these did not endanger our friendship. Then I gave her the UN documents 6 months ago, and mentioned Rand to her 2 months ago. ...You know, I also gave her a copy of the book The Finished Mystery 3 weeks ago--she was surprised to see I had it, and was very interested in it. For all these things, the conversation has been pretty light: "You know, I ran across this very unusual piece of information online--have you heard about it? I think it's very odd. Perhaps your elder could explain it to you, and you could get back to me." And eventually the subject changes. So, there has been a time of quiet prep. But the conversation last Friday has turned events such that these conversations are now front and center.

(Of course, having conditional "friends" and bungling elders with no moral integrity actually has made it extremely easy for me to look good in comparison, and given my words a bit more weight I hope... )

AGAIN, ALL your comments have been VERY HELPFUL to me especially right NOW. (Gary, Special K, and Shotgun especially!!) I appreciate being reminded about those various stops and what they mean. And the useful implications of black and white. I have needed the reminding, and I am going to keep re-reading your posts. I truly enjoy learning these practical applications.

(Looks like she's a group project! )

I appreciate all the personal encouragement and kind words, too, so very much.

bebu

Valis

bebu made me think of something...

You know another simple way would be to ask her if the cornerstone of a church was built on say a racist or chauvanist ideas how could it really be an organization of god? Simple quotes from early publications might be a good thing with a gentle reminder that if the FDS were writng imperfect words then they must have gotten them somewhere besides the holy spirit....the mind will wander over that I would hope. Good luck and good work beu....um I mean rock hound...*LOL*

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

Pistoff

gary wrote:

The kindness, acceptance, and contempt for religious authority modeled by Jesus is actually ignored by the Watch Tower Witnesses. They will not spend much time on the topic of Jesus, they will jump to Paul and then unto the Old Testament. When they go to Paul, they are back on the offensive

Here here. It has taken me many years to come to the same conclusion; it required me to realize that Paul, though converted, also reverted to his old mindset of having a group of believers in a congregation, and then setting up the rules. He recreated the Jewish congregation format, complete with "priests" (elder/ms).

In all his modes of control, though, even Paul did not disfellowship people for saying what they thought.

Short update(s) on my neighbor

bebu

garybuss

qwerty

Panda

Special K

czarofmischief

shotgun

bebu

Valis

Pistoff

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