Comments You Won't Hear at the 11-2-03 WT Study

by blondie 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • blondie
    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-02-03 WT Study

    Review comments will be in black and parentheses ()

    WT quotes will be in red and quotes ""

    Quotes from other sources will be in

    blue

    WHY SHOULD WE PRAY

    INCESSANTLY?

    " Pray incessantly. In connection with everything give thanks."

    -

    1 THESSALONIANS 5:17, 18. (NWT)

    (complete scripture: Pray incessantly. In connection with everything give thanks . For this is the will of God in union with Christ Jesus respecting YOU )

    and never stop praying. 18 Whatever happens, keep thanking God because of Jesus Christ. This is what God wants you to do.?1 Thessalonians 5:17,18 (CEV)

    Opening Comments

    The WTS would like to hem the rank in file in with rules and regulations even in this area of personal communication with God. While JWs don't recite the Lord?s prayer, there are many buzzwords and phrases in JW prayers. Please help me out in any comments by putting down your "favorites." Notice how the WTS again puts itself between Jesus and us when it comes to prayer and how Jesus is taken out of the prayer equation on another occasion. Is Christ your mediator?

    START OF ARTICLE

    THE prophet Daniel had the custom of praying to God three times a day. He would kneel at the window of his roof chamber, which faced the city of Jerusalem, and offer up his petitions. (1 Kings 8:46-49; Daniel 6:10) Even when a royal decree prohibited petitions to anyone but Darius, the Median king, Daniel did not waver for one moment. Whether it endangered his life or not, this man of prayer entreated Jehovah incessantly.

    Is custom the same as tradition?

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/c/c0824100.html

    cus·tom


    n.

    1. A practice followed by people of a particular group or region.
    2. A habitual practice of a person: my custom of reading a little before sleep.
    See Synonyms at habit.
  • Law
    • A common tradition or usage so long established that it has the force or validity of law.
    1. Habitual patronage, as of a store.
    2. Habitual customers; patrons.

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/t/t0305800.html

    tra·di·tion


    n.

  • The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
    1. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage
    .
  • A set of such customs
    • and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.

    Is any witness? life threatened today because of prayer? Was Daniel?s life in danger because he prayed or because he chose to pray in a public way? Why then does the WTS resort to underground preaching when the government forbids preaching in a public way? Shouldn?t JWs follow Daniel?s example and do it in the open anyway?

    Regular prayer can also help us face severe trials.

    For example, consider the case of Harold King, a missionary in China who was sentenced to five years in solitary confinement. Concerning his experience, Brother King said: "I might be isolated from my fellowmen, but no one could isolate me from God.... So, open to the view of any who might pass my cell, I knelt in my cell three times a day and prayed aloud, keeping in mind Daniel, of whom the Bible speaks. ?It seemed that on such occasions God's spirit guided my mind to the most beneficial matters and gave me a feeling of composure.

    Do you think he was following a custom or tradition rather than praying from his heart? Was he inviting persecution? Did he feel that if Christians are not persecuted they are not true Christians? Are we required to pray 3 times a day? Why did he pray in view of all who passed his cell? Why did he pray aloud? To be heard by whom? God?

    The Bible states: "Pray incessantly. In connection with everything give thanks." (1 Thessalonians 5:17, 18)

     (Notice the WTS still doesn't quote the complete scripture. Why are they leaving that part off? Isn?t it just as important?)

    Why should we pay attention to our prayers?

    I have noticed that the WTS "guides" the rank and file in every aspect of their spiritual life, even prayer. Who to pray to, what to pray for, how long to pray, how often to pray, what not to pray for, who can pray and be heard by God?

    Does the WTS believe that Jesus is your mediator?

    Paul was discussing prayer here.

    (NWT) 1

    Timothy 2:1 I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men,

    So he was discussing prayer here.

    1

    Timothy 2:5-6 (NWT) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all?[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular time.

    And continues to discuss prayer here.

    Vs 8

    Therefore I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands, apart from wrath and debates.

    Yet here in a Question From Readers the WTS tries to separate the two, mediator and prayer.

    8/15/89 p.

    30 Questions From Readers

    Is

    Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the "mediator" who "gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"?

    To grasp what Paul is saying, we must first appreciate that the Bible sets out two destinies for faithful humans: (1) perfect life on a restored earthly paradise and (2) life in heaven for Christ?s "little flock," numbering 144,000.

    Clearly

    , then, the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind. It is a carefully arranged legal provision involving God and anointed Christians.

    The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefit even now from Jesus? services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah. Christ said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) All who will gain life on earth must direct their prayers to Jehovah through Jesus.

    So has the WTS separated the concept of prayer from this scripture on Jesus? mediatorship in this article 8 years later?

    WT 2/15/97 p. 28

    Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to "saints" in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: "You must pray, then, this way: ?Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.?" (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." And the apostle Paul stated: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus."?John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

    So the WTS goes back again to using 1 Timothy 2:5 to support the concept that me must pray through Jesus?, mankind?s only mediator not the saints. Is the WTS addressing this to the anointed or non-JWs?

    What reasons do we have for approaching Jehovah constantly?

    And what should we do if we feel unworthy to pray to God because of our shortcomings?

    Or have been made to feel unworthy. The WTS has many times detailed whose prayers will not be heard but did Jesus?

    WT 3/1/00 p. 6 God Does Answer Prayers

    Some sincere people may feel unworthy to pray because of their bad way of life. Jesus Christ told the story of such a man, a despised tax collector?

    According to Jesus, this man received a favorable hearing.

    Build Friendship Through Prayer

    Would you like Jehovah to think of you as his friend?     He spoke of the patriarch Abraham in that way.

    He actually invites us to draw close to him     .

    When was the last time an elder talked to you with more than a hi or goodbye, or asked how you were and but kept walking as you started to tell him? When was the last time an elder had you over to his home? When was the last time one invited you to work with him in the field service? Is he inviting you to draw close to him? How approachable are the elders or is there only one elder that draws people to him?

    How difficult it is to obtain an appointment to speak to an important government official, let alone become his friend! Yet the Creator of the universe encourages us to approach him freely in prayer, whenever we want or need to do so.

    Try approaching an elder, a CO or DO, GB member, or write to Bethel. What kind of response do you get? Is there the same freeness?

    How easily, though, we can neglect prayer! Just dealing with pressures of every-day life can absorb so much of our attention that we do not make an effort to speak to God.

    Implied here is the danger of materialism.

    Though he     invariably found himself busy from morning to night, he set aside time to talk to his heavenly Father. Sometimes, Jesus got up "early in the morning, while it was still dark," in order to pray. (Mark 1:35)

    Is this a little guilt-making foray?

    Jesus always made time to pray, and so should we.-1 Peter 2:21.

    Appropriate moments for private prayer present themselves many times each day as we face problems, encounter temptations, and make decisions (Ephesians 6:18)

    Have you known JWs that pray publicly in a restaurant over a meal that never pray at home before a meal? I wondered for whose benefit was their prayer?

    When we seek God's the WTS guidance in all aspects of life, our friendship with him is certain to grow. If two friends face problems together, does not the bond of friendship between them become stronger? (Proverbs 17:17)

    But the WTS teaches that they are the channel to Jesus to God. How does one get close to God then?

    WT 10/1/94 p 8

    CHANNEL TO UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE

    JESUS assured us that after his death and resurrection, he would raise up a "faithful and discreet slave" that would serve as his channel of communication. (Matthew 24:45-47) All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah?s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.?John 6:68.

    How glad we can be that God puts no limit on how long or how often we may talk to him in prayer!

    Nehemiah quickly uttered a silent prayer before making a petition to the king of Persia. (Nehemiah 2:4, 5)

    Jesus also offered a brief prayer when he requested that Jehovah give him the power to resurrect Lazarus. (John 11:41, 42)

    Hannah, on the other hand, "prayed extendedly before Jehovah" when she poured out her heart to him. (1 Samuel 1:12, 15, 16)

    Our personal prayers     can be brief or lengthy according to the need and the circumstances.

    WT 7/1/97 p. 28 Are You God?s Friend??What Your Prayers Reveal

    At times you will also find it helpful to increase the length of your prayers. During a brief prayer, you may tend to speak about superficial issues. But when you utter longer and deeper prayers, you more readily express your thoughts and inner feelings. Jesus at least once spent the entire night in prayer. (Luke 6:12) No doubt you will find that your own prayers become more intimate and meaningful if you avoid rushing them.

    This does not mean rambling on when you have little to say; nor does it mean resorting to meaningless repetition.

    Prayer is more meaningful when you give thought in advance to what subjects you want to discuss.

    This takes the spontaneity out of it. Like we rehearse what we are going to say to a close friend.

    In a vision, the apostle John sees the 24 elders - the complete number of anointed Christians in their heavenly position (Proof?) -praise Jehovah, saying: "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created." (Revelation 4:10, 11)

    We too have reason to praise the Creator regularly. How happy parents feel when their child thanks them from the heart for something they have done for him     (or her) !

    Reflecting appreciatively on Jehovah's kindnesses and expressing our heartfelt gratitude for them is a fine way to improve the quality of our prayers.

    Do you think God is up there saying, "Can?t listen to that one?s prayers until the quality improves"?

    "Pray Incessantly"-Why?

    Regular prayer is essential to our faith. After illustrating the need "always to pray and not to give up," Jesus asked: "When the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:1-8)

    It is hard to form a relationship with someone you rarely talk to. How much more that applies in the congregation. How often do the elders talk to you? How well do they know you?

    Meaningful, heartfelt prayer builds faith .

    And who determines if it is meaningful? Meaningful to whom? How does this scripture apply?

    Romans 8:26-27 In like manner the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the [problem of] what we should pray for as we need to we do not know, but the spirit itself pleads for us with groanings unuttered. 27 Yet he who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in accord with God for holy ones.

    WT 12/15/91 p 18

    But what if we do not know exactly what to pray for? Our inward groans often remain unexpressed because we do not fully understand our situation, or we are at a loss as to what to present to Jehovah. It is here that the holy spirit can intercede for us. Paul wrote: "The problem of what we should pray for as we need to we do not know, but the spirit itself pleads for us with groanings unuttered." (Romans 8:26) How so? In God?s Word are inspired prophecies and prayers that bear on our situation. He lets these intercede for us, as it were. He accepts these as being what we would pray for if only we knew their meaning in our case, and accordingly he fulfills them.

    If     we open our hearts to Jehovah in prayer, accept his assurances from the Bible (as interpreted by "God?s channel), and obey him the WTS, he will strengthen our faith .

    Prayer can also help us to handle problems. Is our lot in life burdensome and the circumstances we face harsh? The Bible tells us: "Throw your burden upon Jehovah himself and he himself will sustain you. Never will he allow the righteous One to totter." (Psalm 55:22)

    Don?t expect the congregation to help you out financially though.

    When faced with difficult decisions, we can imitate Jesus' example. He spent a whole night in private prayer before appointing his 12 apostles. (Would it help if the elders put this amount of effort into appointing elders and MS?) (Luke 6:12-16) And on the night before he died, Jesus prayed so intensely that "his sweat became as drops of blood falling to the ground," (Luke 22:44) The result? "He was favorably heard for his godly feat" (Hebrews 5:7) Our fervent and incessant prayers will help us to cope with stressful situations and difficult trials.

    Will we be heard only if we pray so intensely that our sweat becomes as drops of blood?

    When we open up our heart to Jehovah in prayer, do we not sense that he is interested in our needs and tenderly cares for us? We experience God's love in a very personal way .

    Jehovah has not delegated to anyone else the responsibility of listening to each and every prayer that his servants direct to him as their heavenly Father.

    But try talking to a member of the Governing Body when you call Bethel.

    Prayer can infuse us with greater zeal for the public ministry and strengthen us when apathy or opposition might make us feel like quitting. (Acts 4:23-31)

    If we continue to pray     for help in controlling our sinful inclinations, we will experience Jehovah's helping hand.

    Persevere in Prayer Despite Shortcomings

    For our prayers to be favorably heard    , we must not reject the counsel of God's Word (as interpreted by "God?s Channel" the WTS) . "Whatever we ask we receive from him," wrote the apostle John, "because we are observing his commandments and are doing the things that are pleasing in his eyes." (1 John 3:22)

    What might happen, though, when our conduct falls short of God's standards     (more like when the conduct of the WTS and its representatives fall short) ? Adam and Eve hid themselves after their sin in the garden of Eden. We too may feel inclined to hide "from the face of Jehovah" and stop praying. (Genesis 3:8)

    "I have noticed that invariably the first false step taken by those who drift away from Jehovah and his organization is that they stop praying," observes Klaus, an experienced traveling overseer.     (Hebrews 2:1) This was the case with Jose Angel. He says: "For nearly eight years, I rarely prayed to Jehovah. I felt unworthy to talk to him, although I still considered him to be my heavenly Father."

    Some of us might feel unworthy to pray because of spiritual weakness     (in God?s eyes or the elders?) or because we have lapsed into wrongdoing (any kind or special DF kind).

    Jonah ran away from his assignment    . But 'out of his distresses, Jonah called out to Jehovah, and He proceeded to answer him. Out of the belly of Sheol, Jonah cried for help, and Jehovah heard his voice.' (Jonah 2:2) Jonah prayed, Jehovah answered his prayer, and Jonah recovered spiritually.

    Jose Angel also prayed fervently for help. He recalls: "I opened my heart and begged God for his forgiveness     (not the elders? forgiveness) . And he did help me. I don't think I would have returned to the truth without the help of prayer. I now pray regularly every day, and I look forward to these times." We should always feel free to talk openly to God about our mistakes and humbly ask his forgiveness (but don?t forget to tell the elders too and be judged repentant or not) .

    When King David confessed his transgressions, Jehovah pardoned his sins    . (Psalm 32:3-5)

    I wonder how long King David had to go to the meetings and have everyone avoid him?

    Do JWs confess their sins to the elders? Should they?

    Re-read this in its entirety and see how the WTS sidesteps the question.

    WT 6/1/01 p. 30 Questions From Readers

    In view of Jehovah?s willingness to forgive sins by the merit of the ransom sacrifice, why is it necessary for Christians to confess to the older men in the congregation?

    As can be seen in the case of David and Bath-sheba, Jehovah forgave David?s sin, grave though it was, because of David?s genuine repentance. When the prophet Nathan approached him, David openly confessed: "I have sinned against Jehovah."?2 Samuel 12:13.

    However, Jehovah not only accepts a sinner?s sincere confession and extends forgiveness but he also makes loving provisions to help the erring one progress to     spiritual recovery. In David?s case, the help came through the prophet Nathan. Today, in the Christian congregation, there are spiritually mature older men, or elders..

    Jehovah wants to help us, not to condemn us.     (1 John 3:19, 20)

    What about the elders?

    What father would reject a son who humbly turns to him for help and advice after making a mistake? (elders do that all the time by saying not repentant enough, or putting on restrictions for a year after reproving)

    The parable of the prodigal son     shows that regardless of how far we may have strayed, our heavenly Father rejoices when we return to him. (Luke 15:21, 22,32)

    Although David committed several serious sins     (capital offenses) , he called on Jehovah , saying: "Do give ear, O God, to my prayer; and do not hide yourself from my request for favor." He also said: "Evening and morning and noontime I cannot but show concern and I moan, and [Jehovah] hears my voice." (Psalm 55:1, 17) How reassuring!

    What if our petition does not meet with an immediate response? We must make certain that our request is in harmony with Jehovah's WTS? will and is offered in Jesus' name. (John 16:23; 1 John 5:14)

    The disciple James referred to some Christians whose prayers remained unanswered because they were "asking for a wrong purpose."     (Would it be a wrong purpose to ask for God to end the WTS hiding of child abuse?) (James 4:3) On the other hand, we should not be quick to conclude (but the elders may ask if there is some hidden sin or yours when you approach them with a problem) that seemingly unanswered prayers are always evidence of God's disapproval. Jehovah may at times allow faithful worshipers to keep on praying about a matter for a while before his response becomes apparent.

    Pray Regularly

    Pressures and problems are multiplying in these "last days," marked by "critical times hard to deal with." (2 Timothy 3:1)

    Yes, the end is near, 90 years now since 1914.

    And trials can easily preoccupy our minds (trials like the treatment of abuse victims by the WTS and its representatives?) . Our incessant prayers, however, will help us to keep our lives on a spiritual course despite persistent problems, temptations, and discouragement. Our daily prayers to Jehovah can provide the vital support we need.

    Jehovah, the "Hearer of prayer," is never too busy to listen to us. (Psalm 65:2)

    Let us never be too busy to talk to him.

    But the elders can be too busy to talk to us.

    Our friendship with God is the most precious possession we have. May we never take it for granted. (Never let the WTS get in the way between you and God)

    "Let us, therefore, approach with freeness of speech to the throne of undeserved kindness, that we may obtain mercy and find undeserved kindness for help at the right time."-Hebrews 4:16.

    Undeserved kindness that does not rely on works. It is a free gift.

    Concluding Comments

    Nothing new again. In fact in my research I found that many of these points have been used 3 or 4 times over the last 5 years. The message I get is that if you feel you cannot pray and be heard by God it is your fault. You must be hiding some sin, not praying in a meaningful way, not being obedient to God the WTS.

    It is bad enough the WTS makes itself the channel to Bible understanding, don't let them be your channel to God in prayer.

    Coming from an alcoholic family, this prayer has helped me through many a day.

    God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference. -- Serenity Prayer

    Blondie
  • kj
    kj

    Great review, Blondie. Thanks again. My mother once confided that she would try to "Draw close to Jehovah in prayer," but often she would give up because it was just too hard (too hard to follow all of the WTS rules I guess). Very sad.

    kj

  • willyloman
    willyloman

    A bunch of guys live in Brooklyn and have a direct pipeline to God Almighty... and this is the best they can do? Jeez Louise.

  • Paradise Found
    Paradise Found

    Hi Blondie thankyou for your review, on the watchtower study (Prayer was the subject)

    And thankyou that you take the time to reply to those that answer your reviews.

    On October 30th I stated a thread on prayer named "Stronger or Weaker". Some of the comments were so Honest . Having read your W:T: study reviw on prayer I learnt a lot . So what is your personal view to prayer. Do you do it.Did the W.T (As with me) change your concept in prayer.

    Hope I havnt put you on the spot but I would value your comment......Thankyou foe all the hard work in your review of the watchtower Study Articles....Michael.

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu
    Our fervent and incessant prayers will help us to cope with stressful situations and difficult trials.
    If we continue to pray for help in controlling our sinful inclinations, we will experience Jehovah's helping hand.

    Statements like this piss me off. When I was being "persecuted" at school, I prayed very frequently for Jehovah's help in the situations I was constantly in. Since I was brainwashed into believing that standing up for myself with violence or words was wrong, I expected a miracle. I never got one. However, I did get PTSD and had a nervous breakdown. Praise Jah.

    While JWs don't recite the Lord’s prayer, there are many buzzwords and phrases in JW prayers. Please help me out in any comments by putting down your "favorites."

    It's burned into my memory, "Our loving father in the heavens, Jehovah, we humbly approach you...."

  • blondie
    blondie
    My mother once confided that she would try to "Draw close to Jehovah in prayer," but often she would give up because it was just too hard.

    Kj, it is true that the WTS makes one feel they will never measure up. It is do more, do more. JWs tend to transfer that lack of confidence by the WTS to God. Whatever the WTS says is seen as what God says. Perhaps your mother needs to do more direct, chronological reading of the New Testament, particularly the Gospel accounts.

    Willyloman, if that were true, then the WTS is not listening. The Pharisees had a direct line to the Messiah, but it did them no good.

    have a direct pipeline to God Almighty

    Welcome Paradise Found,

    So what is your personal view to prayer. Do you do it.Did the W.T (As with me) change your concept in prayer.

    I try to keep my personal feelings, beliefs, practices in the background. I have only been not attending meetings for about 10 months. I am still working through what the Bible says, versus what the WTS says. My relationship with God is evolving. So is prayer. I believe my prayers help me clarify my thoughts. Does that mean that I think God will perform a specific miracle in answer, no. I find that each person has to find their own way. There is nothing in this week?s WT study that is new and since I have been attending meetings for more than 40 years? There is nothing new under the sun or in the WTS. Rather, Paradise, you should look to the Bible and see if what is in there agrees with the WTS? view of prayer.

    Nosferatu, I feel your pain.

    When I was being "persecuted" at school, I prayed very frequently for Jehovah's help in the situations I was constantly in. Since I was brainwashed into believing that standing up for myself with violence or words was wrong, I expected a miracle. I never got one.

    I had the crap beat out me once. My parents let me fight back though. I wasn?t allowed to smart off but I found that not answering back irritated them more than whatever I might had said.

    I learned that you make your own miracles even growing up as a JW. I wish I had been around Nos, things might have been different.

    And thanks for the prayer buzz phrase.

    Blondie

  • worldlygirl
    worldlygirl

    First of all, I always hated the concept that God is so demanding. If he can read what is in our hearts and minds, why is kneeling in prayer so important?

    Also, prayer in itself seems selfish. There are wars raging in third-world countries, people starving every day, children everywhere are suffering at the hands of abusers - - yet, I'm supposed to ask God to take time out of his busy day to help me feel better because I didn't get the promotion I wanted, etc. Utter bullsh-t.

  • acsot
    acsot

    I have found more synchronicity and serendipity in my life through various meditation techniques than I ever found answers to prayers (fervent and prolonged) when asking "Jehovah" for help/guidance/strength/wisdom in getting answers to all my doubts.

    Blondie, you did your usual great job. It's quite sickening to see how hoodwinked we all were - there was a time when I would have studied this article and felt loads of guilt for not having "meaningful" prayers, as if an omniscient, almighty, loving god would have his rule book in hand while listening to fragile, imperfect humans stuttering their cares and concerns to him, quaking in fear that he wouldn't be pleased with their small offerings .

    "Our loving father in the heavens, Jehovah, we humbly approach you...."

    I heard this refrain over and over ad nauseam, along with "we approach your lofty heavenly throne in Jesus' name"; sometimes there'd be so many titles in front of Jehovah's name they took up half the prayer: "Jehovah, Almighty God and Sovereign of the Universe, we approach you as our loving Father..."

    And then there'd have to be some recognition of Jesus' role, though he's barely ever mentioned anywhere, so the end of the prayer could lay it on thick for the Son of God: "we ask all these things not through our own merits, but through the merits of your only-begotten Son, our King and Redeemer, who gave his life on our behalf, Jesus Christ. Amen."

    By the time we got through making sure Jehovah and Jesus didn't feel slighted there'd be no time left for the substance of the prayer. Sheesh.

  • Maverick
    Maverick

    Thank you again Blondie. I have come to really look forward to Fridays!

    The WTS is playing the role of spiritual teacher again! They pick a subject; holy spirit, prophesy, or in this case prayer, and then go on with all assumed authority to tell us the mind of God. And they state over and over how, "as God Earthly Channel",(where's Jesus?), they have the inside tract to all the facts on this subject! They weave their little doctrines and unsupported claims right in with this material and the brainwashing is reinforced!

    I have a little voice inside my head that talks to God all the time. I thank Him for a beautiful day, or a great meal or the love of caring friends. I don't need a special "phone calling card" provided by the WTS to let Him know how I feel! Maverick

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Blondie, you had me laughing out loud as I read it. I have come to love the review each week, and when at meeting I find myself doing the critical thinking and comparative reasoning that you have in your reviews.

    You hit on one of my pet peeves: Jehovah "forgiving" David for his serious offenses. Well, yes; murder, adultery and malfeasance as a king in sending Uriah to the front. Did Jehovah forgive him, or was he spared because he was the king, after all? I wish I didn't have to hear about David ever again.

    You also hit on another of my concerns: what in the world is the status of the OS? It takes a special little end around for the WT to get to our relationship with God; Jesus is not our mediator, but the scriptures say he is the mediator for all mankind. What is that "legal provision" that they talk about anyway? It sounds like the rules and legalities they say they don't have.

    And finally you picked away at another glaring issue with them: the holy spirit. It is not enough that "baptism candidates" are baptized 1. recogizing their being a sinner, needing Jesus, and 2. (WARNING legal language ahead:) that baptism associates them with god's spirit directed organization (we can't have access to it directly; it is filtered through Brooklyn.)

    NO. This quote reinforces that we DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT:

    But what if we do not know exactly what to pray for? Our inward groans often remain unexpressed because we do not fully understand our situation, or we are at a loss as to what to present to Jehovah. It is here that the holy spirit can intercede for us. Paul wrote: "The problem of what we should pray for as we need to we do not know, but the spirit itself pleads for us with groanings unuttered." (Romans 8:26) How so? In God?s Word are inspired prophecies and prayers that bear on our situation. He lets these intercede for us, as it were. He accepts these as being what we would pray for if only we knew their meaning in our case, and accordingly he fulfills

    They can't even say that we are helped directly by God's spirit, even in prayer!! The only way that they will allow that the average witness can have spirit work on our behalf is by saying the the spirit has already inspired something that covers our problems, and God takes those prophecies and prayers as our prayers by proxy!! Have you ever heard such nonsense in your life? It fulfills this purpose though: THEY WILL NEVER ADMIT OR ALLOW THAT HOLY SPIRIT WILL HELP OR INFLUENCE A MEMBER OF THE OS DIRECTLY. Got a problem that you can't figure out? Hey, that was covered in the holy spirit's prayer in such and such a book, let me plug that one in for ya!

    They skirt around the issue sometimes, and even talk about how we need the spirit. But this is the reality; we are only helped by PROXY.

    Otherwise, the problem is this: How can holy spirit work on us, how is that different from having the spirit tell us that we are God's sons and daughters? They cannot answer or tolerate this question, and so we are separated from Holy Spirit in most discussions of it.

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