This was very intense!
I really enjoyed this weeks disection, and why wasn't the scripture quoted properly? I think we know!
Beans
Comments You Won't Hear at the 11-2-03 WT Study
by blondie 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
DanTheMan
'towerspeak buzzwords and phrases JW's will hear for the umpteen millionth time at the 11-2-03 WT study.
did not waver... Regular prayer...severe trials...beneficial matters...Why should we pay attention to our prayers?...approaching Jehovah constantly...feel unworthy...our shortcomings...draw close to him...pressures of every-day life...so should we...Appropriate...How glad we can be...poured out her heart...Reflecting appreciatively...improve the quality of our prayers...open our hearts...imitate Jesus' example....stressful situations and difficult trials...infuse us with greater zeal...public ministry...apathy or opposition...sinful inclinations...we will experience...favorably heard...not reject the counsel of God's Word...when our conduct falls short of God's standards...Jehovah and his organization...felt unworthy...feel unworthy...spiritual weakness... lapsed into wrongdoing...recovered spiritually...the truth...humbly ask his forgiveness...how far we may have strayed...We must make certain...we should not be quick to conclude...God's disapproval...Jehovah may at times allow...Pressures and problems are multiplying in these "last days," marked by "critical times hard to deal with."..trials...keep our lives on a spiritual course... persistent problems, temptations, and discouragement...May we never take it for granted.
*YAWN*
-
Blueblades
Blondie,you have got to put "Comments You Won't Hear" into book form.It has and will continue to help so many to open their mind and see the other side of what is not being said in the wt.articles.I would put "Comments You Won't Hear"alongside "Releasing The Bonds,Empowering People To Think For Themselves".
It is through these 'comments you won't hear' reviews, that hit at the very heart of the society's main teaching magazine and help those who read these reviews to really think for themselves,and help many more to come out from under this mind - controlling cult.
I commend you for all of your painstaking efforts.
Blueblades
-
Enishi
Thanks for these critiques Blondie, I can't imagine studying through all that drudgery myself.
Until I started reading these posts, I never realized just how many subtle messages and double-speak the WTS puts into their study articles. It's very eye-opening. At first when I read this article on prayer I had thought it was actually rather decent, until I took a closer look and read inbetween the lines.
-
Allinclusive
Hi Blondie, i too really enjoy your comments. They give me much encouragement (ok i'm still in) to fade away. In fact i'm translating them into a german forum cause i like them. I hope you don't mind it - the credit will be yours as i always give a link.
-
jgnat
I like "Comments You Won't Hear" because they are topical and fresh. Many XJW's have moved on, but for those who are looking for a way to fade, or stay for sake of family and friends, they find validation here that their concerns are genuine.
Here is a link to an interesting group of young people who are taking incessant prayer to heart. I include it here to remind the Watchtower that there are vital, energetic Christians out there.
Q. WHY? - BECAUSE...
Because we need miracles more than we need strategies
Because the world is a vacuum waiting to be filled
Because the MTV generation is lost in space
Because we've seen the end of the movie
Because this is not the dress rehearsal
Because the poor are getting poorer
Because we're aliens in the world
Because we're too sensible
Because boredom is sin
Because he's
worth it
Here is my little study on prayer and relationship. This issue probably hits home more than most, because of the thoughtless comments my honey received from the elders. ?How do you know Jehovah will hear your prayers?? My honey?s entire spiritual self-worth was questioned because of his relationship with me. I don?t know if every Witness is like this, but my man is very hesitant in prayer, and will not do so aloud. It is as if he is afraid of being censured for a carelessly tossed word. How can an organization who claims to be Jehovah?s representatives on earth, be so poor at imparting confidence that they can approach God?
The study claims that prayer brings prodigal members back to the ?Truth?.
?I have noticed that invariably the first false step taken by those who drift away from Jehovah and his organization is that they stop praying,? observes Klaus, and experienced travelling overseer. (para 15) What they fail to mention is that a vital, personal prayer life has led many Christians away from the Watchtower society.The old law hit home that every man is a sinner, separated from God. Israel, in fear, lost an opportunity for relationship.
Exodus 20 NIV
18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die." 20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning." 21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.Then Jesus removed the barrier. Through him, our sins were washed clean, and we all were given a way to approach Him without fear.
Luke 23 NIV
44It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.So what have the witnesses done? Communication is not directly from Jehovah, or in private with Jesus, but through literature published and produced by an organization of men. This organization of men have built a paper barrier, which might as well be built of tempered steel. Sin separates, Jesus? sacrifice insufficient. A Witness approaches Jehovah, uncertain and unworthy. The glorious promises to be united with Jesus are hoarded by the Watchtower for a few anointed.
1 Corinthians 13 NIV
12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.How can a good Witness approach the throne of grace with confidence? How is a Witness ever truly free? Hebrews 4:16
-
Enishi
I was only after I started praying more and doing more research that I began to see the WTS for what it was. I drew closer to God, but farther away from the WTS.
-
blondie
Hi Worldlygirl,
First of all, I always hated the concept that God is so demanding. If he can read what is in our hearts and minds, why is kneeling in prayer so important?
Actually, God doesn?t demand that we kneel but if your heart moves you?I always thought people knelt when they knew they were going to talking a long time to God, rather than standing. But for humans to direct people to a certain position is all wrong. I?m glad that the WTS never got that bad. It used to be that standing was demanded but now it is phrased "for those that are care to and are able, please stand." I always sat. At the assemblies when people were directed to stand for the announcements and then sit when directed to, I either stayed seated (and got some glares which disappeared when I held up my cane) or stood but sat down before everyone else. I would sit for the songs too. That was towards the end of my meeting attendance.
Also, prayer in itself seems selfish. There are wars raging in third-world countries, people starving every day, children everywhere are suffering at the hands of abusers - - yet, I'm supposed to ask God to take time out of his busy day to help me feel better because I didn't get the promotion I wanted, etc. Utter bullsh-t.
Right on, Worldlygirl. I think of prayer as a way to focus the day. It is good to realize that most of our problems are nothing compared to others. It?s like talking with a friend and all you talk about is yourself.
Good comments, ascot (hope your mom is finding some comfort),
there was a time when I would have studied this article and felt loads of guilt for not having "meaningful" prayers
"Meaningful" is a WTS buzzword. It is right up there with "full share" as a guilt inducing technique. Never good enough, never doing enough is the WTS motto. The thing to remember with the WTS it is more important to see what they DON?T say than what they DO say.
I will say this with the brothers, at the meetings most of them get about 30 seconds notice they are opening or closing the meeting with prayer so they rely on the trite phrases that are heard over and over. There are so many unwritten rules as to what can go in a prayer, many timid brothers don?t push the envelope.
Maverick (how?s your daughter doing?)and then go on with all assumed authority to tell us the mind of God.
As if anyone can know the mind of God! But the mind of Christ, where is that in the WT study articles?
1 Corinthians 2 (AMP)
16 For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart. Pistoff (I hope you aren?t laughing during meeting)Jehovah "forgiving" David for his serious offenses. Well, yes; murder, adultery and malfeasance as a king in sending Uriah to the front. Did Jehovah forgive him, or was he spared because he was the king, after all? I wish I didn't have to hear about David ever again.
The WTS explanation of this is weak and unfair. Why should David not be put to death because he had shown mercy to others? Does that mean from now on murderers in Israel who had shown mercy in the past were going to given a reprieve from the execution the Law proscribed? I see in this a hidden agenda?when elders commit DFing sins they get special consideration and are not DF?d where the rank and file would have been shown the door so fast their head would spin.
we are only helped by PROXY.
I don?t mind that if the proxy were Jesus, but they expect everyone to come through them to get to Jesus.
Hi again, Beans (love that site too)
and why wasn't the scripture quoted properly
because of Jesus Christ
Yes, it was another move to take Christ out of the picture.
DantheMan (Is that a bigger turd?!)Sounds like they are giving a talk to the audience rather than having a conversation with God.
did not waver... Regular prayer...severe trials...beneficial matters...Why should we pay attention to our prayers?...approaching Jehovah constantly...feel unworthy...our shortcomings...draw close to him...pressures of every-day life...so should we...Appropriate...How glad we can be...poured out her heart...Reflecting appreciatively...improve the quality of our prayers...open our hearts...imitate Jesus' example....stressful situations and difficult trials...infuse us with greater zeal...public ministry...apathy or opposition...sinful inclinations...we will experience...favorably heard...not reject the counsel of God's Word...when our conduct falls short of God's standards...Jehovah and his organization...felt unworthy...feel unworthy...spiritual weakness... lapsed into wrongdoing...recovered spiritually...the truth...humbly ask his forgiveness...how far we may have strayed...We must make certain...we should not be quick to conclude...God's disapproval...Jehovah may at times allow...Pressures and problems are multiplying in these "last days," marked by "critical times hard to deal with."..trials...keep our lives on a spiritual course... persistent problems, temptations, and discouragement...May we never take it for granted.
Blueblades , thanks for the encouragement.
help those who read these reviews to really think for themselves
If that is the only thing I accomplish, I will feel it is all worthwhile. It is a good reminder to me. As was commented above, sometimes as JWs an article seemed innocuous, but deeper examination reveals manipulation through guilt and deceit. The WTS is more guilty of lies of omission than any other. Quotes from non-JW sources is a good example.
Enishi , welcome,At first when I read this article on prayer I had thought it was actually rather decent, until I took a closer look and read inbetween the lines
Thank you, Enishi, thank you. I know now that I am getting through. Not that the WTS is the only group that does this. I learn a lot from those that post to this topic too.
I was only after I started praying more and doing more research that I began to see the WTS for what it was.
There is nothing wrong being like the Bereans.
Acts 17 (MSG)
11 They were treated a lot better there than in Thessalonica. The Jews received Paul's message with enthusiasm and met with him daily, examining the Scriptures to see if they supported what he said. Allinclusive , I?m flattered. I can?t really stop you but can you do this. Give me the link to your forum so I can check it out. I speak, read, and write German (though I?m a little rusty I read fairly well). I would like to check out what my other homeland is doing.I include it here to remind the Watchtower that there are vital, energetic Christians out there.
Jgnat , my husband and I were discussing how the WTS teaches that the only true Christians are JWs and that the efforts and prayers of others are a waste of time. My husband was grocery shopping the other day. A young man around 21 came up to him and asked, "Are you a churchgoer?" Hubbie answered, "Not any more, I?ve been turned off by the hypocrisy in religion, but my wife and I still read and study the Bible regularly." Young man, "That?s good to hear. I go to a small denominational church on the north side of town and we have Bible study group (handing him a card with address and times)." I don?t know any 21-year-old JW young men who would have approached someone in the supermarket to invite them to a meeting!!!!!!
So far we have been approached to visit a church by 2 Lutherans, 1 Methodist, 2 Mormons, 1 nondenominational Christian, and a Catholic priest. We live in another congregation?s territory who don?t know we live here. No one has called in the last 2 years. Who is doing God?s work?
because of the thoughtless comments my honey received from the elders. "How do you know Jehovah will hear your prayers?"
Oooh, that is nasty! I heard that one. I said "How do you know he doesn?t? If he listened to Manasseh who burned his own children, I think he would listen to me." That shut them up.
How can an organization who claims to be Jehovah?s representatives on earth, be so poor at imparting confidence that they can approach God?
Because they want their confidence to be in the WTS and depend on the WTS to be able to approach God.
I have noticed that invariably the first false step taken by those who drift away from Jehovah and his organization is that they stop praying,"
I can remember when I was inactive about 15 years ago (yes I came back what a stupid head), that I stopped praying because I couldn?t understand why God allowed these people to be abusive to me, why he didn?t stop them. Why did it seem that they had God?s favor? I finally realized that the WTS could not have God?s favor and do these things. It took awhile to realize that.
As to your loved one, Jgnat, tell him for me that God wants to hear what is in your heart not your head. Tell him that it draws you closer to him to hear his expressions.
Wonderful comments, guys! This is more stimulating than any WT study I have ever attended (that's 48 years worth).
Blondie
Proverbs 27 (CEV) 17 Just as iron sharpens iron,
friends sharpen the minds
of each other. -
Scully
(NWT) 1 Timothy 2:1 I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men,
Wow, this quote is pretty heavy. Especially when you consider that the WTS tells JWs that any prayers for DFd or DAd people will not be heard by God. I guess people who leave The Truth? aren't really "people" anymore, so they don't qualify as "all sorts of men" and are undeserving of prayer.
Pathetic.
Love, Scully
-
Allinclusive
Hi Blondie, fine you are ok with me to put your work for some others. The reason i do it is that i realised many could take advantage of your work. I talked to a good friend of mine - also on the way out of this org - and i mentioned this thread, he was just excited.
I don't know how to put the correct link (cause it's build with frames) but here it is: the best info on the german platformhttp://www.infolink-net.de/index-forum.htm
edited to make the link "clickable" - Scully
