Do you sometimes wish you could believe?

by Xander 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Xander
    Xander
    Because I realize that these people, despite all of their conviction, really do not know, they believe. No, I don't wish I could believe, but I would still like to know.

    Interesting.

    I suppose you are correct, and the problem was with the phrasing of my question - see my above post.

    Okay, I don't wish to believe. In fact, I never have. I don't want to 'just believe'.

    But - and, maybe I differ from you on this - I do wish to NOT HAVE TO believe. I have not dismissed the supernatural, and probably won't. But I want to see something more of it. I don't want to do a spell or say a prayer and have to *just believe* it will work. I want to KNOW it will because I've seen it happen before.

  • Adam
    Adam

    Xander, you and I are on the same page. Semantics is just getting in the way. To believe is to accept as true and/or real. Faith is belief in something for which there is no proof. I think I have been using "believe" in leiu of "have faith." I have not dismissed the supernatural either, for the simple fact that you can not prove to me that there is no supernatural being or force. Yet, like you, I need to see it happen and be able to repeat it, to quantify it, or have some form of verifiable proof in order to accept it as true and real (to believe it). I would love to be shown proof that cantations or potions or prayer works. If I had that proof, I would then believe in it and that would be great. But in the mean time, I am incapable of having faith that one or the other is reality.

    Basically, if I had the proof, then I would both know and believe. Without the proof I have two choices. I can either have faith and believe or say "I don't know." I believe the latter is a more honest and open minded outlook.

  • Xander
    Xander

    Exactly.

    But, I mean, don't you wish you COULD know?

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Xander,

    I guess what I was fishing for is the thoughts of people who believe we can interact with them in a meaningful way.

    Honestly, I believe that we can interact with the God or Goddess in a meaningful way, and we can interact with spirits aswell. Its an unfortunate fact that those who have an intense desire to "see a ghost" or whatever tend to put up barriers to seeing one.

    All of the times I've seen spirits or had a visit from the Lady, (and other stuff that is unexplainable), I've been in a frame of mind of either not thinking about it or just thinking "if something happens it happens, if it doesn't its no big deal". Thinking back its most often happened when I was relaxed and grounded aswell. For instance, the one and only time a spirit has made me really jump was after a particularly calming and successful coven ritual....we'd finished and everyone was mulling about getting out a bit of food etc, and I decided to go to the loo, but on my way a spirit walked past me through a door and I jumped out of my skin ! LOL. I think I saw the ghost because of my relaxed and grounded state, if I had not been in that state I may have sensed *something* but not actually had a visual experience (and how many times does that happen and you put it down to being nothing?).

    My advice to you is don't TRY to see something. One big help would be the practise of meditation or the regular use of a crystal ball. Have the attitude that its doing you good anyway so if you see anything or have an experience then its a bonus, but not necessary. Another method is ask the universe, but be sure you mean it. As a male you might be interested in using Runes, and these can help open you up.

    About supplicative prayers working - or spells for that matter (there isn't that much difference...), the thing is that they don't always work. One suggestion as to why is that if you pray you are effectively sending out your desire to the universe and you are opening yourself up to recieve. The thing is that there are energies working in the universe which may be stronger than the energy of your desire, and your desire is therefore blocked. A good example of this is the lottery. You might pray for a win and you might *really really* want it, but the energy surrounding the lottery is so strong with so many opposing forces that you're unlikely to win no matter how much you want it. (everyone else is thinking the same thing...! ! )

    Just before I started my witchcraft studies I read a book called "manifest your destiny" by Wayne Dyer. It is about the power of meditation techniques to affect your life. He suggests that you cultivate the mental attitude that all you desire is already there waiting for you, you just have to be in a position to recieve it. Therefore you don't need to ask God for money or whatever, you need to bring yourself to a state where prosperity can flow into your life. I think this is a great way of seeing things.

    Good luck. One thing I will say is Please don't spend your life searching and searching because noone has all the answers. Life isn't about having wierd experiences and talking to God, life is about living it in every moment. Its about really enjoying and loving the things around you. My father died having searched his entire life for answers to spiritual questions and now I find it good to think of that when I'm tempted to spend too much time with spirituality and not enough time living.

    Sirona

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    For me Franklin put it right on the nail

    a JW, I had a certain sense of security in that I had ( or certainly BELIEVED that I had) all the answers. I no longer live with that perception. The realization that it was a big lie was a stunning blow.

    But although fleeting thoughts can pass through my head, I know too much now. I could never "Exchange the truth for a lie" What did the Who used to sing?, "Wont get Fooled Again"

    I would love to find out a real truth . If I was sure of Gods will , I would do it. But right now iI am just reading and learning.

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    Yet, at the same time, as a JW, I always thought my prayers 'worked'. Or didn't 'work', but only due to god's will. Obviously, in retrospect, they had no effect at all and only 'worked' or didn't 'work' when what I was praying for was actually going to happen or not - completely independent of my wishes.

    I have never been a JW, However, I never really started seeing many prayers answered untill I was born-again by faith in Jesus Christ (the real one). Now they are often answered to specifically and powerfully in order to be coincidences. If spirits can affect peoples lives, then shouldn't they have a creator who can, and more so?

  • Frannie Banannie
    Frannie Banannie

    Xander, I'd just like to know the "tried and true" thing to believe in, once and for all....you know....what really works, something viable to believe in...the "real deal"....I've been haphazardly searching and reconstructing my beliefs based on my own experiences, but dont' know whether my past allegedly "spiritual" experiences are due to "programming" from things I was taught or read about....and consequently a "figment" of my imaginings as a result....I'm kinda tired of searching.....classified as "neo-Pagan" but don't really know what that means....I'm Celtic in origin and it's been said that I had a past life as a Native American, which probably explains my interest in Native American culture and beliefs....totems, etc.....I'd just like to quit spiritually and religiously "flopping around" and settle on something valid, instead of just another mind-raping religious cult.

    Frannie B

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