Does God Exist?

by Tashawaa 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    I posted this link in another thread that I think some may find interesting. It's the personal account of a former JW, and his views on this very topic. It's a little on the long side, but, in my never-took-a-physics-or-astronomy-class opinion, it sounds pretty reasonable.

    Is there anyone in here who has the academic background to either support or refute his ideas? We all have our feelings on the subject, but can anyone give an educated response?

    http://www.premier1.net/~raines/story.html

    Still Inquiring,

    imallgrowedup

  • Panda
    Panda

    Else, Do I get to be the mother goddess I've been waiting to use my powers for weeks. Unfortunately everyone keeps praying to some long dead bronze age character whose name they can't pronounce. But mine is easy P-A-N-D-A . And you know that Bear constellation ... well it isn't URSA Major it's Panda Major. I put it there so I should know.

    Anyone else with stellar accomplishments

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas
    James - I love this... can I use it?

    Tashawaa, If there is something there that rings true for you then make it your own, I don't care.

    If the universe didn't come out of non-intelligent nothingness, or from the God of the Christian Bible, how do you think it came to exist?

    Imallgrowedup, I don't know how. Yet, there seems to be an ever growing sense that any separation from us and the true Source ("God", if you want) is illusion. When the mind is quiescent: all thoughts, concepts, ideas and beliefs dissolved, there is only a extremely vibrant aliveness, without boarder or bounds that no thought can capture. Perhaps our consciousness of the universe, and the universe -- are one in the same. Perhaps it all comes into existence moment by moment, simply to be embraced by our conscious awareness. I get a sense that things love our attention and thrive on it. j

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    JT-

    I had to read your post twice to get it's full, deep meaning!

    Perhaps our consciousness of the universe, and the universe -- are one in the same.

    This is a very interesting perspective. Again I find myself curious. My perception of "conciousness" is that it is something intangible, yet when I think of "universe" I think of it as something physical; as a place. For example, we have been to the moon, done a drive-by of Mars, and just recently got a probe as far as Jupiter. Therefore, I have trouble seeing our intangible conciousness as being one and the same as the concrete universe. What am I missing?

    Perhaps it all comes into existence moment by moment, simply to be embraced by our conscious awareness. I get a sense that things love our attention and thrive on it.

    This takes some thinking about as well! My inquiring mind has been turning this over and I find myself wondering if what you are saying is that before things come into existence, they already have feelings of needing and thriving on our attention? If so, how would they have feelings before they even exist?

    My other thought on this is if this were true, would it mean that "man" is the creator of the universe, and if so, does that make him (us) a god?

    I love hearing other's opinions on this type of subject! Thanks for sharing yours!

    imallgrowedup

  • rem
    rem

    An interesting thing about humans and conciousness: Basically we are part of the universe - we are atoms and stardust. Conciousness in humans is kinda like the Universe's way of learning about itself. When we ponder the Universe, the Universe is actually pondering itself. Kinda weird if you think about it.

    rem

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas
    I have trouble seeing our intangible consciousness as being one and the same as the concrete universe. What am I missing?

    Here is an analogy. Lets say last night you had a vivid dream in which where mountains and streams, trees and people, much travel to the moon and thriving relationships. Was anything really concrete? Did any of it happen outside of you? Or was it all, the stage and lights, the actors and the audience all simply consciousness? I mean where did the "concrete" sense of phenomena start and the "intangible" watching consciousness end? Was there any real separation at all? Though multi faceted universes are seemingly created and observed in our dreams there is really only one thing at play: The light of Consciousness. What I am trying to express is very much like this. Very much like this. The difference in what I am saying and the way we normally look at things is: normally everything seems concretely fragmented through out a canvas of space and time. The other way of seeing is through the eyes of Oneness, in which only One thing (really a non-thing) is at play. If you look into the eyes of an infant, one that does not yet know words, you will experience a wonderful thing. Unconditioned consciousness. The child looks deep within your eyes with total nonjudgmental openness. The baby does not yet know of the concepts of you and me, or me and other. As fare as the child is concerned there is no boundaries, no separation. The child has no idea where it ends and you begin. You can see it. You can feel it. It's quite beautiful really. This is love, when boundaries dissolve. In time however, the child will be programmed and conditioned, and probably blinded forever to it's innate oneness. However, i n the silent heat and earnestness of desire for Truth we can fall back into the arms of this same experience. You look upon a tree, and the tree is not a tree. There are no words or labels that say "tree", a thing separate from me. There is instead the beautiful dance of color and sensation, all of it extremely intimate and in no way separate or apart of who, or what I truly am (what you truly are). We all can experience this. It is very much our true nature. It's just that we give attention and focus to thoughts, ideas, concepts and beliefs instead. And in these mental constructs there is automatically a sense of contraction and separation because that is just the way the mind works within the confines of thought and language. There is nothing wrong with this, it's just that we drown in it believing it is our ultimate and true reality -- which it isn't.

    " I find myself wondering if what you are saying is that before things come into existence, they already have feelings of needing and thriving on our attention? If so, how would they have feelings before they even exist?"

    Perhaps I worded it in a way that made it seem there are many different components interacting together. This is not the case. As far as "man" being creator of the universe, I would say absolutely no. Man, is a concept, the combined belief that I am a separate entity from the rest of the universe. When the "me" is seen clearly as a false identity it becomes transparent, loses it's seeming grasp and power and there is beheld nothing but God/Source/Awareness. j

  • gumby
    gumby

    If there is no spirituality.......how does my dog know what I'm thinkin?

    Gumby

  • moonwillow
    moonwillow

    The child in us should continue to live as we grow. Easier said than done sometimes.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    The God of the OT who appears in burning bushes and enjoys the smell of burning foreskins and smears dung on the faces of Israel's enemies - no.

    I was asked via PM to provide the scriptures that speak of these things, but unfortunately I can't send PM's here, I can only receive them, so here goes:

    1. Burning bush - that's easy, Exodus 3

    2. Burning foreskins - I must humbly retract this one - I was thinking about 1 Samuel 18:27 (a gruesome account) but nothing about Jah enjoying the smell of burnt foreskins - my apologies

    3. Smearing dung - Malachi 2:3, actually the smearing of dung in faces (nice) spoken of in this verse is in regard to Israel, not any enemy (so Jah smears poop in the faces of his own worshippers)

  • heathen
    heathen

    Those are some interesting comments .

    elswhere --- Who came up with that theory ?? and does all the energy in the universe include the all powerful God?? lol

    I was watching a science show that discussed the string theory and thought it interesting that many physicists are very much considering the concept of multiple dimensions besides the ones they were already aware of . In these dimensions they claim is a infinite source of energy that is undetectable and is the building block of gravity . Each atomic particle has these strings of energy . I thought this to be a pretty far reach for respectable scientists to make but in effect is the same sort of reasoning that theologians tend to attempt to explain the existence of the universe and everything .

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