Interesting article: Everybody Hates Us

by greven 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • greven
    greven

    This is an article describing why evangelical christians are universally disliked. The interesting thing is that it is an honest self examination by a evangelical christian, Michael Spencer. The JW's could learn a thing or two from this examination.

    I have repreduced the article here and highlighted in bold certain points. Enjoy!

    Everybody Hates Us
    Michael Spencer notes that evangelical Christians are almost universally disliked. Are there good reasons?

    I don't really know why someone thought it was necessary to do a poll to see just who were the most disliked groups in society, but the results are in. While serial killers and IRS agents still rank the highest, hot on their heels are evangelical Christians. Not Christians in general. Not Roman Catholics. Not all Christians—but evangelical Christians.

    If you're like me, you have three reactions to this news. First, you tend to blame the media. Almost every portrayal of an evangelical Christian on television or in movies makes us look like the worst version of every stereotype we fear. Of course, one cannot expect the mainstream media to take up the cause of rescuing the evangelical public image, and these days virtually every group has a list of complaints with various kinds of media portrayals. There is more to the public perception of Bible believers than a media vendetta.

    The second reaction is what we tend to say to one another to reassure ourselves that we are really OK after all. "It's the Gospel," we say to one another. Evangelicals are identified with a message that no one wants to hear, and so they are disliked. If you don't believe it, watch what happens when an evangelical leader appears on a talk show. It's like raw meat to hungry lions, no matter if the evangelical in question is rude or wonderful. (I have seen some of the nicest evangelicals torn limb from limb in these settings, including liberals who gave away the store.)

    I would never argue with the basic premise of this observation. I have seen its truth too many times. They crucified Jesus. Enough said. But as true as this is, it is too simplistic to explain the increasing level of general despising of evangelicals in our society. It explains one thing, but it does not explain many other things. It actually may tend to blind us to our own behaviors. Like the residents of Jerusalem who were convinced their city could not fall because the temple was there, evangelicals may explain this dislike as reaction to the Gospel and then be blind to those things—in addition to the Gospel—that create legitimate animosity.

    The third reaction is the guilty knowledge that evangelicals really are, very often, easy to dislike for many obvious reasons. Many evangelicals know exactly what the survey is registering, because they feel the same way themselves. We've all observed, in others and in ourselves, distinctively evangelical vices, hypocrisies and failures. We hoped that our good points would make up for these problems, but that was another self-deception.

    It is easy to say that people's dislike of Christians is the dislike of the Christian message, but that simply doesn't hold up in the real world. It may be true of the Christian you don't know, but the Christians you do know have it in their power to either make it easy or difficult for you to dislike them. For example, the Christian in your car pool may believe what others refuse to believe, but his life provides a powerful antidote to any prejudice against him. Thousands of missionaries have been opposed for simply being Christians. But hundreds of thousands have lived lives that adorned the Gospel with attractive, winsome and loving behavior. A past president of our school was revered by Muslims during and after six years of Peace Corps service in Iran, years where he talked about the Gospel to Muslims every day and saw many trust Christ. The fact that the Gospel has penetrated into many hostile environments is evidence of the power of the Holy Spirit, but it is also evidence that one way the Spirit works is by making Christians a display of the fruits of love, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control.

    We are loathed, caricatured, avoided and disliked because we often deserve it. There. I said it and I'm glad I did.

    Here's my list of why evangelicals are among the most disliked persons in America:

    1. Christians endorse a high standard of conduct for others and then largely excuse themselves from a serious pursuit of such a life. Jesus is the most admired person in history, but evangelicals are far more likely to devise ways for Jesus to be like us than for us to be like Jesus.

    If it hasn't struck you lately that you do the very thing you condemn others for doing (Romans 2:1), urge others to do what you don't do or excuse in yourself what you require in others, then you probably don't get this article at all.

    Did it irritate you when your dad said, "Do as I say, not as I do."? Then you get the picture.

    2. Evangelical Christian piety in America is mostly public. Whether it's our entertainment-saturated "worship" services, our celebrity cults or our mad obsession with worldly success, we love for others to see "what God is doing in our lives." Of course, Jesus had plenty to say about this, and the essence of it is that when your piety is public, then there is almost certainly a lack of serious, life-transforming, private obedience and discipleship.

    I have lately been strongly convicted by J.C. Ryle's little book, A Call To Prayer. Ryle makes a devastating case for the obvious absence of the discipline of private prayer among Christians. What would Ryle say today? Does our public manner grow out of a true inward experience of private prayer? You see what I am talking about. If it's public, we do it well. If it's private discipleship, we probably don't do it at all.

    3. Many evangelicals relate to others with an obvious—or thinly disguised—hidden agenda. In other words, those who work with us or go to school with us feel that we are always "up to" something. You mean, they know we want to convert them? Apparently. Ever been yelled at for saying, "I'll pray for you?" Maybe there was a reason.

    You know that feeling you get when a telemarketer interrupts your dinner? I get that feeling sometime when my Pentecostal/Charismatic friends are trying to persuade me into their camp. It's not that I don't know they are good, decent, law-abiding people who like me. I just want them to quit treating me as a target or a project and start treating me as a person who is free to be myself and different from them.

    This same feeling is prevalent among those who dislike evangelical Christians. They are annoyed and sometimes angered that we are following some divine directive to get them to abandon their life choices and take up ours. They want to be loved as they are, not for what they might become if our plan succeeds.

    Evangelicals have done a lot of good work on how to present the Gospel, but much of that work has operated on initial premises that are irritating and offensive. I have taken my share of evangelism courses, and there is a great blind spot on how to be an evangelist without being annoying and pushy. We somehow think that the Holy Spirit takes care of that aspect of evangelism! Thank God for men like Francis Schaeffer and Jerram Barrs who have done much to model evangelism that majors on maintaining the utmost respect toward those we evangelize.

    4. We seem consumed with establishing that we are somehow "better" than other people, when the opposite is very often true. Many evangelicals are bizarrely shallow and legalistic about minute matters. We are frequently psychologically unsound, psychiatrically tormented, filled with bitterness and anger, torn apart by conflicts and, frankly, unpleasant to have around.

    I have an atheistic acquaintance who never misses an opportunity to post a news story about a morally compromised minister. Is he just being mean? No, he is pointing out the obvious mess that is the inner life and outward behavior of many evangelicals, truths we like to avoid or explain as "attacks of the enemy." Our families are broken, our marriages fail and our children are remarkably worldly and messed up. Yet, we boldly tell the world that we have the answer for all their ills! How many churches proclaim that a sojourn with them will fix that marriage and those kids? Do we really have the abundant life down at the church, ready to be dispensed in a five week class?

    We are not as healthy and happy as we portray ourselves. The realities of broken marriages among the Christian celebrity set underlines the inability of evangelicals to face up to their own brokenness. Was there some reason that Sandi Patti and Amy Grant were supposed to be immune from failed marriages? Why did their divorces make them pariahs in evangelicalism? The fact is that most evangelicals are in deep denial about what depravity and sinfulness really means. The world may have similar denial problems, but I don't think they can approach us for the spiritual veneer. The crowd at the local tavern may have issues, but they frequently beat Christians by miles in the realistic humanity department. Maybe they should pity us, but the fact is that, as the situation becomes more obvious, they don't like us.

    5. We talk about God in ways that are too familiar and make people uncomfortable. Evangelicals constantly talk about a "personal relationship" with God. Many evangelicals talk as if God is talking to them and leading them by the hand through life in a way only the initiated can understand. Christian testimonies may give a God-honoring window into the realities of Christian experience, or they may sound like a psychological ploy to promote self importance.

    Evangelicals have yet to come to grips with their tendency to make God into a commodity. The world is far more savvy about how God is "used" to achieve personal or group ends than most evangelicals admit. Evangelicals may deny that they have made God into a political, financial, or cultural commodity, but the world knows better. How does an unbeliever hear the use of Jesus to endorse automobiles, political positions, or products?

    In my ministry, I have observed how difficult it is to evangelize Buddhists. One of the reasons is that the Buddhist assumes that if you are serious about your religious experience, you will become a monk! When he sees American Christians talking about a relationship with God, yet does not see a corresponding impact upon the whole of life, he assumes that this religion is simply an expression of culture or group values. Now we may critique such a response as not understanding certain basic facts about the Gospel, but we also have to acknowledge the truth observed! Rather than being people who are deeply changed, we are people who tend to use God to change others or our world to suit ourselves.

    6. Evangelicals are too slow to separate themselves from what is wrong. Because ours is a moral religion, and we frequently advertise our certainty in moral matters, it seems bizarrely hypocritical when that moral sense is applied so inconsistently.

    I note that my evangelical friends are particularly resistant to this matter, but the current Trent Lott affair makes the point plainly. Lott says that he now repudiates any allegiance to segregation or the symbols of segregation. Suddenly, he sees the good sense in a number of things he has opposed. But bizarrely, Lott stands behind his evangelical Christianity as the explanation for his sudden conversion to racial sensitivity.

    Watching this spectacle, there are many reactions, but what interests me is how Lott's Christianity only seems to apply now that he is being dangled over political hell. Where was all this moral sense in the 1960s? Where was it 10 years ago? Why does it appear that Lott is using his religion at his convenience? It's not my place to judge what is going on between Lott and his God, but his apparent pragmatism in these matters is familiar to many people observing evangelicals on a daily basis.

    Most evangelicals are not the moral cutting edge of contemporary social issues. Despite the evangelical conscience on issues like abortion, it is clear to many that we no longer have the cutting-edge moral sense of a Martin Luther King Jr. or a William Wilberforce. Evangelicals are largely annoyed at people who tell them to do the right thing if it doesn't enhance their resumes, their wallets, their families or their emotions.

    What is odd about this is that many of those who dislike evangelicals have the idea that we want to impose our morality upon an entire culture. Fear-mongering liberals often talk about the Bush administration as populated by fundamentalist Christian Taliban poised to bring about a Christian theocracy. I wonder if they have noticed that President Bush—an evangelical right down to his boots—is practicing religious tolerance over the loud objections of evangelical leaders like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

    7. We take ourselves far too seriously, and come off as opposed to normal life. Is it such a big deal that Christians are offended at so many things others consider funny? I'll admit it is a small thing, but it is one of the reasons ordinary people don't like us.

    I read an incident written by a preacher on a forum I monitor. He told about taking his youth group on an outing, when the students began singing a popular country song about a guy who leaves his wife to pursue his fishing hobby. It's a hilarious song. But this fellow's reaction was predictable. He asked them to not sing a song about a marriage that breaks up and to instead sing something that honored God. I routinely hear students ridiculing a fellow teacher who labels much of what students find funny as "of the devil."

    These incidents show something that evangelicals need to admit. We are frequently unable to see humor, absurdity, and the honest reasons for humans to laugh at themselves. What very normal, very healthy people find laughable, we find threatening and often tag with the ridiculous label "of the devil."

    The message here isn't just that we are humorless or puritanical. The message is that being human or being real is somehow evil. This is one place I can feel exactly what the unbelievers are talking about. When I see Christians trying to rob young people of the right to be normal, ordinary, and human, it angers me. I feel threatened. It's hard to like people who seem to say that God, Jesus, and Scripture are the enemies of laughter, sex, growing up, and ordinary pleasures. Some Christians sometimes seem to say that everything pleasurable is demonic or to be avoided to show what a good Christian you are. Isn't it odd that unbelievers are so much more aware of the plain teaching of scripture than we are?

    I am sure there is much more to say, but I have ridden this horse far enough. Certainly, unregenerate persons are at enmity with God by nature. And, without a doubt, Christians represent a message that is far from welcome. Christians doing the right thing risk being labeled enemies of society. Much persecution is cruel and evil. But that's not the point. Christians are disliked for many reasons that have nothing to do with the Gospel, and everything to do with the kind of people we are in the relationships God has given us. The message of salvation won't earn a standing ovation, but people who believe that message are not given a pass to rejoice when all men hate you—for any reason, including reasons that are totally our own fault.

    No doubt someone will write me and say that, to the extent people like us, we have denied the Gospel. Therefore, being despised and hated is proof that you are on the right track. And there is a certain amount of truth to that observation in some situations in which Christians may find themselves. But that is an explanation for how we are treated, not directions on how to make sure we are rejected and hated by most people for reasons having nothing to do with the message of the cross. I hate to say it, but I've learned that when a preacher tells me he was fired from his church for "taking a stand for God," it usually means he was just a jerk.

    The Scriptures tell us that the early Christians were both persecuted and thought well of for their good lives and good works. What was possible then is still possible now. I've seen it and I hope I see more of it—in my life.

    Michael Spencer is a campus minister, teacher, pastor and writer living in Eastern Kentucky. You can read more of his attempts to sort things out at The Internet Monk.

    Greven

  • greven
    greven

    bttt

    It really is interesting! Don't make me beg people! LOL

    Greven

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    I am fascinated by this article - it seems he has done a lot of thinking about the role of religion in human life. I like that. Actual thought, not mere fanaticism disguised as faith.

    Good eye, greven, thanks for posting this.

    The commonality between a certain type of religious mindset in all denominations has been well documented, and yet still people imagine, "Yes, but I'm different because I have the right religion." God is more amorphous - whimsical, almost sometimes, in my almost Deist view...

    The Buddhist viewpoint is amusing - if these people had a genuine conversion experience, wouldn't they become ministers or monks of sorts?

    CZAR

  • heathen
    heathen

    greven--- That guy sounds like he has a persecution complex . I don't think most of these evangelists are persecuted . I do pitty most people that are duped by most of them . What they want is control and I think that kind of control is outdated . Just because people don't take you seriously does not mean you are persecuted .

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    That guy sounds like he has a persecution complex . I don't think most of these evangelists are persecuted .

    Many Jews have a persecution complex too -- they also feel they are universally disliked

  • greven
    greven

    Notice how a lot of the tings he admits can be said about jw's as well. He admits it, yet jw's put on blinders even though most know it!

    this especially struck acord with me:

    "Our families are broken, our marriages fail and our children are remarkably worldly and messed up. Yet, we boldly tell the world that we have the answer for all their ills! "

    Greven

  • gumby
    gumby
    The Scriptures tell us that the early Christians were both persecuted and thought well of for their good lives and good works. What was possible then is still possible now. I've seen it and I hope I see more of it?in my life.


    Yeah.....poor poor christians that were persecuted.

    10th Century Obscenities
    Vile Princes of the Papacy
    "Popes maimed & were maimed, killed & were killed... Without question, these pontiffs constitute the most despicable body of leaders, clerical or lay, in history. They were, frankly, barbarians. Ancient Rome had nothing to rival them in rottenness."
    ? Peter de Rosa (Vicars of Christ, p48)
    John XII (955-964).
    Born from an incestuous relationship between Pope Sergio III and his13-year-old daughter Marozie. John, in turn, took his mother as his own mistress. Pope at 18, he turned the Lateran into a brothel. He was accused by a synod of "sacrilege, simony, perjury, murder, adultery and incest" and was temporarily deposed. He took his revenge on opponents by hacking off limbs. He was murdered by an enraged husband who caught him having sex with his wife.
    11th Century Horror
    Church lords over ignorant squalor of millions
    1095 - Pope Urban II calls upon the Franks to invade the more civilised Muslim world. Begins five centuries of warfare.
    "Let those who have hitherto been robbers now become soldiers."
    ? Urban II addresses his gangsters
    1009: Rivalry from Islam prompts eastern churches to break with idolatry. This 'iconoclasm' begins breach with idol-worshipping Catholic west. Centuries of bloodshed ensue.
    1079: The Council of Rome: Persecution of Berengarius & his followers who cannot stomach the dogma of 'transmutation of bread & wine into Christ.'
    12th Century Criminality
    Christian Church ally of murderous kings & rogue princes
    "Warrior Monks" - Muslim heads catapulted into the besieged city of Antioch by Christian Knights (Illumination from Les Histoires d'Outremer by William of Tyre 12th c, Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris)
    1118: Christian fanatics captured Saragossa; the beginning of the decline of Muslim civilisation in Spain.
    1184 Council of Verona condemns Waldensians for witchcraft. The charge is later extended to condemn heretics.
    13th Century Wickedness
    Vile Crusaders Plunder & Murder for God
    1204 Christian crusaders sack & ruin greatest Christian city, Constantinople.
    1209 Pope Innocent III launches Albigensian Crusade against Christian Cathars of southern France. 7000 massacred in La Madeleine Church alone.
    1211 Burning of Waldenses heretics at Strasbourg begins several centuries of persecution.
    German Teutonic Knights butcher their way through the Baltic lands, savage Catholic Poles & Orthodox Russians.
    1231: Pope Gregory IX authorizes Inquisition for dealing with heretics.
    14th Century Catastrophe
    Church hostility to medicine allows plague to decimate Europe



    Burning of the Jews of Cologne ?
    blamed by Christians for the Black Death (Liber Chronicarum Mundi)
    World Domination?
    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff."

    ? Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unun Sanctum, 1302
    1311-12: Ecumenical Council of Vienne. It authorises the brutal suppression of the Knights Templar (mercenaries of the church who have outlived their usefulness).
    1316-1334: Pope John XXII, world's richest man and first pontiff to promote theory of witchcraft. Sanctions bull allowing heresy charges to be brought against dead people. In 1320 he instructs French Inquisition to confiscate all property belonging to blasphemers or dabblers in black arts.
    1347-50: The Black Death sweeps across Europe, killing one-third of the population.
    "Jews were burnt all the way from the Mediterranean into Germany... under torture confessing to have spread the plague by poisoning wells... the poison made from the skin of a basilisk (a kind of mythical serpent)..."

    ? N. Cantor (In the Wake of the Plague)
    15th Century Malevolence
    Tortured Bodies by Sadists of the Lord

    16th Century Mayhem
    Pogroms & civil wars in the name of Jesus
    "My advice... is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire.."
    Martin Luther ("On the Jews and their lies" 1543)
    1517: Martin Luther posts 95 theses at Wittenberg. The Reformation will turn Europe into a battleground.
    1517 A Dominican monk Johann Tetzel swells papal coffers by selling indulgences ('souls freed from purgatory'!)
    1524: Luther ? no friend of the downtrodden ? encourages savagery of German princes in putting down the two-year Peasants? Revolt
    Book Burners for Christ?Dominican monks in the service of Ferdinand proudly consign the wisdom of Moorish Spain to the flames (Berruguete, Prado Museum, Madrid)
    1559 Introduction of Index of Forbidden Books (lasts until 1966)
    1563 Following the Council of Trent, Jesuit Order becomes 'Defender of the Faith'. Huguenots are persecuted in France.
    17th Century Barbarity
    Burning Witches for Christ

    Urbain Grandier, burned in Loudun, 1634. Cardinal Richelieu orchestrated his murder.
    1600 After a seven year trail before the Inquisition, Giordano Bruno, who had the audacity to suggest that space was boundless and that the sun and its planets were not unique, is condemned and burned at the stake.
    1605: The Gunpowder Plot. Catholic fanatics attempt to blow up James I of England.
    1633 Galileo is brought before the Inquisition. Under threat of torture and death, he is forced from his knees to renounce all belief in Copernican theories. He is sentenced to life imprisonment. He dies in 1642 and the charges against him stand for another 350 years.
    1618-1648 Central Europe devastated by Thirty Years' War between Catholics and Protestants
    1411 Dominican Vincente Ferrer revives anti-Jewish hysteria in Spain: "cohorts of the Devil and Anti-Christ, clever, warped and doomed."
    1415 John Huss of Bohemia, critic of papal corruption but guaranteed personal safety, burned at the stake. "When dealing with heretics, one is not obligated to keep his word." ? Pope Gregory XII
    1415 Pope John XIII deposed: "The most scandalous charges were suppressed; the Vicar of Christ was only accused of piracy, murder, rape, sodomy and incest."
    ? Gibbon (Decline & Fall)
    1478: Pope Sixtus IV, in alliance with King Ferdinand of Spain, establishes the Spanish Inquisition. Jews, Moors and heretics will be imprisoned, tortured and murdered for centuries.
    The bisexual Sixtus, though suffering from syphilis, fathers children from his elder sister.
    1486 Taking a break from book
  • gumby
    gumby

    Here some more stuff on how the poor poor christians were persecuted,

    Guide Book for Torturers
    "All sects of heretics are condemned and various punishments are appointed for them and their accomplices."
    --Pope Alexander IV (1254-61)
    (Directory for the Inquisitors p. 135)
    Gutted. Remarkably, the victim's soul was undamaged by this procedure

    Just a few of the tortures that 'heretics' went through:
    ? Skin flayed from head, face and body
    ? Noses, nipples and breasts pulled off with red hot pinchers
    ? Fried or boiled alive or roasted on a spit
    ? Mouth slit back to ears
    ? Crucified upside down
    ? Thrown from windows on to spears
    ? Arms cut off
    ? Torturous slow burning, soles of feet, then up to ankles, mid-calf, etc.
    ? Women stripped, hung from trees by their hair and scourged or left hanging by one leg until dead
    ? Tourniquet placed on head and twisted until eyes came out
    Grilled. Simple but effective
    ? Ears bored out
    ? Tongue cut out
    ? Set down (by pulley) into a fire by degrees
    ? Thrown to dogs
    ? Hung up by the heels and choked with smoke
    ? Disembowelled
    ? Sharp instruments forced under nails and into other body parts
    ? Racked until their bowels broke out
    ? Throats cut with butcher knives
    ? Knocked on the head with axes
    Crushed. Squeezing heresy out of the foolish

    Torture Chambers
    ' For 1500 hundred years, the Christian Church systematically operated torture chambers throughout Europe. Torture was the rule, not the exception. Next to the Bible, the most influential and venerated book in Christian history was the Malleus Maleficarum (Hammer of Witches), which was a step-by-step tutorial in how to torture "witches' and "sorcerers".
    David Mills (Science Shams & Bible Bloopers, p361)
    Biblical Basis for Burning:
    "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"

    ? (John 15:6).
    "Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother."
    ? Isaiah, 9.19

    Loving Your Neighbour? ? Killing Your Opponents!

    Christians get a lot of mileage out of the aphorism of 'turning the other cheek', a sentiment originating at least as early as Pythagoras in the fourth century BC. Yet both in theory and in practice, Christians have honoured the principle of murdering their opponents. The word, it seems, came from the very top. Apparently Jesus himself said:

    "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
    (Luke 19.27)

    The Christian Heaven may have been a vain folly but the Christian Hell was real enough. For more than a thousand years sadists in the uniform of Christ terrorised and brutalised a continent and then exported that terror to the four corners of the globe. The Church, which, with a satanic twist of humour, claimed to be the instrument of 'Christ's loving kindness' , taught a brutalised and impoverished people new meanings to the words pain and suffering...

    Breaking on the Wheel. The naked heretic had each limb and joint broken precisely to avoid any fatal blows. He was then 'braided' into the spokes of the wheel and hoisted on to a post. There he was exposed to the elements ? or left to be twirled by passers by who wanted to join in the fun.

    For those who dared to be different:

    Incarceration, starvation

    Psychological torment and terror

    Laceration, mutilation, strangulation, suffocation

    Crushing, choking, burning, garrotting

    Slow and agonizing death

    Welcome to a Christian Europe!

    The Pope's Pears: The vaginal pear was used on woman who had sex with the Devil or his familiars. The rectal pear was used on passive male homosexuals and the oral pear was used on heretical preachers or lay persons found guilty of unorthodox practices. Inserted into the mouth, anus or vagina of the victim, the pear was expanded by use of the screw until the insides are ripped, stretched and mutilated, almost always causing death. The pointed ends of the 'leaves' were good for ripping the throat, intestines or cervix open.
    The Judas Cradle: The victim is raised up by the rope or chain and then lowered until the vagina, anus or the coccyx rests on the point. The torturer could vary the pressure by hanging weights from the victim or rocking or raising and dropping the victim from various heights.
    Iron Spider: The iron would usually be heated to red-hot and then used to slowly rip the breasts from the body. It would be used for such crimes as heresy, adultery, self-induced abortions, blasphemy and other "hideous" crimes.
    Strapado: Designed to dislocate the shoulders of a victim by hoisting him off the ground, allowing him to fall, and stopping him suddenly before he touched the ground. To add to the torment, weights (varying from 50 to 500 pounds) were tied to the victim's body to dislocate a greater number of bones.

    Slow Burn
    A 16th c. a device to lift the victim in and out of the fire, roasting him alive slowly instead of burning him all at once.
    Cat's Paw
    A clawed rake, used to rip the person's flesh and tear the flesh from the bones of any part of his or her body.
    The Holy Trinity: When a sinner had "blasphemed the holy name of god", or when he had perhaps told some truth about the local priest, it was customary to apply the holy trinity. The Iron mask was heated in an open fire until red hot, then put upon his head. The scourge, also red hot, was then applied to his back. After the mask had cooled, it was removed from the sinner, taking skin (and usually eyeballs) with it. The prisoner's mouth was then opened and red hot pincers were used to remove the prisoner's tongue.
    It is interesting to note that the Holy Trinity was designed not to cause death, so that the maimed, blinded and mute prisoner could live out his days as a burden to his family and as a testimony to what happens when one lets his tongue wag too freely.

  • borgfree
    borgfree

    Greven,

    I guess I agree with most, maybe all, of the article. I think it can be hard to live a Christian life without being like the article describes, but that is no excuse.

    We may be a smoker, and enjoy that habit, but we would probably tell our children, strongly, that smoking is very bad for them, and that they should never start that habit. That would seem hypocritical, but we want what is the best for them, so we tell them anyway. We may have the same reasons for telling people to avoid things that we still practice.

    I have had a problem (I have been working on it for a long time) of left over JW thinking. When I became a Christian I thought it was necessary, a commandment, to tell everyone about the salvation possible through Christ. I thought it was a requirement to tell them, even though they did not want to hear it.

    We, Christians, do have an obligation to tell everyone the salvation message, but, as the article states, we must use thoughtfulness and the fruits of the spirit in doing so.

    Christians are still imperfect people and have all of the same faults, desires and problems as everyone who is not a Christian, we still must try to always improve, not because it is required to gain salvation, as the JWs teach, but because of our love for our Lord Jesus, and our desire to be like Him.

    Borgfree

  • Stacy Smith
    Stacy Smith

    Here I thought this was going to be a thread about hating America.

    Go figure

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