What's So Special About These One's? (page 2)

Amazing

Hey Englishman: Isn't that uncanny how I just happened to use the name of oyur best pal? Must be that Spirit-Directed thing the Governing Booty (er, I mean Body) talks about. Anyway, sometime ago, when H20 was still alive, you and I were going to email because I am of 100% British ancestry, and my family heritage is a castle in Merry Old England. I will send an email shortly under my screen name. Thanks. - Amazing

patio34

Englishman,

If you don't mind my asking, what is your background in relation to the JWs? Just curious.

Pat

terraly

Just thought I'd add another thought on the stock-Christian experience versus the anointed.

It seems like the best a JW can do with any sort of spiritual experience is discount it. Unless of course they want to go through the travail of being a dubious young anointed, it's much easiest just to pretend it never happens.

It leaves scars on the far side too. Ex-JW's feel there has to be something really special about being a child of God- 'cause after all, the anointed really felt something really special. Now some born agains profess a sort of extreme spiritual revelation at the moment of faith, but I've always heard God much more as a still calm voice.

No disrespect meant to Amazing, but it's always been my belief that the anointed and born-agains exaggerate the whole thing. I mean, you're supposed to be one of these holy anointed, so this special feeling you get better be pretty darn special. So special they can't explain it... seems a bit suspicious eh?

It's a matter of expectation largely. With something like this if you're expecting fire from on high you'll probably get yourself pretty worked up and you'll be convinced you felt something.

In some ways the WT is one of the ultimate "Experience" brands of Christianity. You must have a spiritual revelation of monumental proportions in order for the Bible to apply to you (in it's entirety).

Someone posted a thread here a while back that dealt with a WT article attacking the Catholic Church for some announcement in the front of some Catholic bible's saying "not to be read without a priest". Ironic isn't it? According to the Witnesses much of the Bible should be marked, "not to be read (or at least listened too) unless you're anointed".

anglise

Another point the JW's teach is that the 144,000 have been gathered since pentecost and would have consisted off all loyal christians who died after then until the teachings of the gospel became polluted by the catholic church amongst others.
Then it is speculated that there where 'worthy' ones down through the ages such as The Waldenses, Luther etc.
Then of course it had new light and that is why those from the time of the early dubs are just a remnant. 2000 years doesnt leave many spaces over to fill.
I have read recently (I cant remember where) that there where most likely more than 144,000 xtians who died in the Roman arenas anyway, so it is all very flaky when looked at in any detail.

patio34

Anglise,

Good point--about 144,000, at least dying in the Roman times. How many spaces could there be left to fill if they were ALL anointed back then, and throughout the next 1900 years, and 8,000 still today? Quite a stretch.

Pat

wannahelp

anglise and patio34,

Get a copy of the book

"Approaching Jehovah's Witnesses in Love" by Wilber Lingle..

It explains in that book, Chapter 7, using the witness's own bible and evidence, that even if the 144,000 is a literal number, there could not possibly be any spaces left, therefor, it's impossible for anyone on Earth today to be of the "annointed" class the JW's claim exist..

jerry

Another point is if the 144k have been Jehovah's annointed/mouthpiece/prophet/instrument in an
unbroken line since Pentecost then where did Russell learn the TRUTH? Who were they when little
Charles was say 8 years old? Where were they meeting? Did he start the orginization? no.
Did he join the org? weeelll yes. Then why didn't he wait on Jehovah?
jerry

Amazing

Hi Terraly: You made some good comments on this topic, and I thought I would respond to one point:

You said, "No disrespect meant to Amazing, but it's always been my belief that the anointed and born-agains exaggerate the whole thing."

I agree with you that the JWs (WTS) embellishes and makes anointing a mysterious experience, and they also use this simple Christian attribute to create class distinction and corporate power positions for the leaders.

I also agree with you that 'Born-Again' types, primarily the radical fundamentalists can make this a very exaggerated experience. What I should have clarified when I talked about most Christians treating anointing much more nodestly, is that these tend to be among Presbyterian, Christian Reform, Methodists, and many Baptists. But also it varies individual to individual even among fundamentalists.

You noted, "I mean, you're supposed to be one of these holy anointed, so this special feeling you get better be pretty darn special. So special they can't explain it... seems a bit suspicious eh?"

True, among some, especially the JWs and certain fundamentalists.

You said, "It's a matter of expectation largely. With something like this if you're expecting fire from on high you'll probably get yourself pretty worked up and you'll be convinced you felt something."

This is also true for many people in a veriety of matters in life. So, yes, some JWs who claim to be anointed get a 'special' feeling, though I never did. Similarly, JWs also are most convinced that 'demons' inhabit some baby blanket given to them by a non-JW relative, and feel better when they burn the blanket, with screaming demons and all.

But, I think that among the majority of Christians, they are modest and see anointing as one among many features of being Christian, and they usually remain modest about the experience, and are very capable of explaining it, because in reality is a not mysterious, but just another way in which God deals with those he adopts. - Amazing

crossroads

Can we distance ourselves enough from our warped
up bringing and read Rev:6 verse 12 through 7 verse 4.
Now I'm no scholar but I don't believe any of this has
happened yet. Can I least get someone to admit that
this sealing takes place at a specfic time and not over
two thousnd years. Man those Angels who are holding
the destructive forces are sure strong if they have been
holding Gods wrath for 2k years.These people were all alive
Read 7;3&4-"Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees
till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads"
NO REMANT IS MENTIONED: IT IS ALL OF THEM
4 says the # :::this angel that came to mark came at one
time and as of yet it has not occured. The 144,000 MAY be
an anointed class of people but they are not the only
anointed ones. After all none of the 1st century christians
were of the 144,000 but many including Stephen was
anointed. Hey I'm just reading what is written, without
any colored glasses on or help from that "OLD MAN"
behind the curtian.(Wizard of Oz ref.)

ozziepost

G'day all,

And a special G'day to my English friend:
how does this “remnant” become aware that they have a calling?Amazing's comment is especially appropriate:

The JW anointing process is virtually identical to the rest of Christendom....When one reads the Bible and puts faith in Jesus Christ as their mediator, they are adopted into God's family and called a 'son' or 'child' of God. Anointing is the 'spirit' of adoption

It's important for JWs to understand that the Borg teaches that the New Testament is not written to them. Thus, the mediatorship of Christ is not for them, and the F&DS takes upon itself the role of mediator.

(JW types [lurkers] should take a moment and define what blasphemy is!)

With respect to the number 144,000: How many Christians were there in the first century? How many were martyred? These seem to be questions that have answers that may cause us to doubt that the number 144,000 is a literal number.

Regarding Liberty's point:

Really old folks, who were in before there were two classes, were better accepted/respected/believed than younger people who made this claim. We had a young elder(late 20's) and his wife come in from California and they both claimed to be of the "anointed" but the coincidence of a husband and wife team along with their age and arogance made many suspect that they may not "really" be of the anointed but this was just quietly whispered about. In any case, it was always said that these old faithfuls who'd been in since the teens and twenties were the proof that Armegeddon was near as they were very old and frail and would not all pass away before the "End" was fullfilled because they were a part of that "Generation" who saw Christ enthroned.

Some new appointees to the GB would be among this type! Interesting, eh?

Cheers,
Ozzie

Freedom is not having to wear a tie.

What's So Special About These One's?

Share this