by logansrun 41 Replies latest jw friends
Live and let live. If people are going to come out they are going to come out. I am thinking that if they are disobedient enough to the society by being here in the first place, one day they will wake up and come on out.
Humor causes laughter and laughter is a good medicene.
People heal in their own time.
Heather
Humor is good, a tool to help us realize that what the WT denounces as blasphemy is actually good for human liberation. The sarcasm is the actual act of human beings getting up off their knees and mocking those who still pray to the bricks in Brooklyn.
As for being an effective tool - that's not the purpose, as I see it, of this site. There are much more serious sites for people to learn the truth about the troof. Here, they can learn to speak freely and see what others have to say about their circumstances. This is a kind of "second stage" site where the escaping dubs can begin to form new relationships as they prepare to leave the borg.
CZAR
Wine and crackers sound ok?
This is great if you only want to eat once a year. I haven't seen them passing a plate around for an individual in any congregation I was part of. Feeding the hungry is not their deal. I can hear them now, "Why would we exert effort to feed them in this system for a short time when they can eat forever on a paradise earth if they only listen to the spiritual food?"
LOL
Also, when you play the victim role the abuser does have continued control over you. I know I'm all "new age" so this will sound weird, perhaps. But one affirmation you can make is: I release you from the role of abuser and relinquish the hold you have over my life. Doesn't happen overnight, but nothing good ever does.
Finally one day it is possible not to give a s**t anymore about them. Hating takes energy and I have absolutely none left for the borg. I see them now as a bunch of old men playing at god. Thats called a delusion and I have no time for it and no emotion except pity.
Gretchen
Abaddon,
logansrun:Thread topics like "How to mess up the Society"...."What Dirty Tricks Would You Pull on the Watchtower" and "The Society is about to go down the tubes!" don't impress me. You?Why do you feel that topics should impress you? I don't see any basis for that assumption. I certainly don't make posts to impress people; but perhaps your choice of words is obscuring your meaning?
I just said they don't impress me, period. Others felt the same way. You are the one putting words in my mouth -- that they should impress me.
Honesty and forthrightness. Deconstruction and understanding. I feel these are the qualities that will expose the undesireable elements in the Society as well as help people within and without it.Yes. And? Whether you like it or not, this is a community of survivors, all different but united by a similarity of experienece. Whilst to you jokes and faceitous humour may not be appropriate, obviously to others they are either appropriate or possibly even needed; laughter is a natural human emotion, do we have to avoid all humour related to experience with the Collective (see, there's one) or our view of them now?
So -- no control then? "Anything goes"? Sorry, I don't buy that. I think there is room for some humor as I pointed out later in this thread, but which you neglected to mention.
Is your disturbance perhaps due to the fact you are not used to a social group where diversity of opinion is allowed and indeed encouraged?
Nope.
You continue to imply things that I never said. Nowhere did I say anyone should feel wrong or bad because of their posts. I think you are the one overanalyzing things.Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.Likewise. And I don't have to feel bad if I am wrong; one of the dehumanising aspects of cultic experience is that being wrong is not allowed!
When someone makes an outlandishly angry comment about the JWs -- or an inaccurrate one, which happens with frequency -- then we are the ones who are letting the Society control us, but we just don't realize it. If you read my sentence which you quoted here and think about it you will see that I am advocating acting in a manner which the Society doesn't want or expect from us.... the more sensational and "angry" the topic, the more we appear to be what the Society has depicted us as.Yes, but do we really want to let the Society carry on controlling our behaviour even when we are no longer part of it?
Truth need not hide nor wear fancy trousers.
Nor does it need to engage in hate, bitterness, inaccuracies, unfairness, double-standards and the like. Bradley
Hi logans
I just said they don't impress me, period. Others felt the same way. You are the one putting words in my mouth -- that they should impress me.
Quite deliberately,because you don't seem to be aware of the tacit assumption you have made, or are using sloppy language that requires further definition; 'impress' is descriptive of your emotional reaction to it rather than anything else. An maybe I am being picky, but if you know me I'm probably being picky to make a point that perhaps you are being picky.
So -- no control then? "Anything goes"? Sorry, I don't buy that. I think there is room for some humor as I pointed out later in this thread, but which you neglected to mention.
Now who's putting words in mouths? Did I say 'no control' or 'anything goes'? Whilst you mentioned humour, it seems you feel that if you don't find it funny or appropriate, then it isn't.
Nope.
Oh, well that's alright then. If that's not the reason, what is?
You continue to imply things that I never said. Nowhere did I say anyone should feel wrong or bad because of their posts.
Surely if you feel some posts are inappropriate you feel those making them are acting inappropriately? If not, explain the contradiction. If so, then obviously, despite the above statement, people will fell wrong or bad because you feel that they are acting inappropriately.
I think you are the one overanalyzing things.
Well, as I think you are being critical of other's contributions, and are neglectful of the differing needs of others when compared to your needs, you're welcome to think what you like; I really don't mind. My reaction is based upon your opinion; your's is based upon my reaction to your opinion.... smoke.... fire...
When someone makes an outlandishly angry comment about the JWs -- or an inaccurrate one, which happens with frequency -- then we are the ones who are letting the Society control us, but we just don't realize it. If you read my sentence which you quoted here and think about it you will see that I am advocating acting in a manner which the Society doesn't want or expect from us.
Ah, so if someone who was abused is angry with their abuser they are still letting the abuser control them? Don't they have a right to be angry? The most signal way we can act in a way the Society doesn't want is recovering; blocking part of the recovery process seems counter-productive to your stated aims.
Nor does it need to engage in hate, bitterness, inaccuracies, unfairness, double-standards and the like.
Isn't that a scripture... "Love is not...?"
Besides, I'm given to understand that the moderation that does take place here is not specifically to make the place palitable for wavering Witnesses, but to enforce a standard set of reasonable behaviour. You seem to have decided that moderation should go beyond this and delete, criticise or outlaw posts that are hateful, bitter, inaccurate, or unfair about the Borg.
It's not your board; you're entitled to your opinion however.
As are others.
Abaddon,
I don't wish to engage in an overly punctillious analyzation of your words or mine. You're adept at logic-chopping (and a little sophistry, if you ask me) but you don't seem to get the general message of what I am saying. I stated my opinion and some agreed with me. You don't. Fine.
Bradley
I like what Gretchen said earlier, and I agree about the passive agressive tendencies some posters posit. But I also like to engage in a good debate and maybe a bit of reparte(sp?). You get to know a lot about yourself and others when you see what they will or won't fight for in a post.
I have heard from other newly or almostly x-JW's that say this forum is vindictive. I don't see that as a huge trend and I don't read topics that appear inflammatory (anymore). Venting is important, helping dubs is important, and participating is important. So what's the answer? IMO being myself is the best for me and everyone else. But not everyone is as comfortable in their skin. I also believe that the many younger ex-dubs are still working to see who they are, and hurting because of the fresh wounds from JW parents and congregations. I forget who said "Once tortured, always tortured." I think it is more difficult for those ppl raised as dubs. The rest of us had another way of life to look back on, or return to after leaving the WTS. I always think of those kids who are locked in rooms for 10 yrs, never learn to talk, never get socialized, and just plain cannot deal with life outside the cage. Well, WTS raised kids have some of the same issues and they really need to give themselves a voice. So it's a bit like learning to play an instrument ... a bit irritating at first but eventually worthwhile.
Bradley
How can I not agree with you if I "don't seem to get the general message of what I am saying"?
You're contradicting yourself again.
I have a very good idea of what you are saying Bradley, despite that, and I think you know this.
If you choose not to defend your argument or even react to various questions regarding your argument, I think that speaks for itself; whilst you are are obvioiusly deliciously and utterly free to hold that opinion you don't seem to be able to defend it.
This is part of what a discussion forum is about; putting forth opinions and ideas and discussing them, which often means defending them, as this is not an agreement forum.
And yes, I am being picky, I KNOW I'm being picky as it's deliberate. You don't seem to realise you're being picky.
All the best
Abaddon,
Well, at least you admit you are a pain in the....er...you're being picky .
Here's the thing: I get the impression you think I am being overly righteous or that I don't feel for the pain others have gone through on this board. Au contraire. I understand the indignation and pain of people here -- I have felt that pain and continue to suffer from it's effects from time to time, probably in ways I am not fully aware of.
All the same, I do believe that the sensationalism on this site is less than fully efficacious. I do believe that people make statements about the JWs which are unfair at best, downright nasty at worst. (For instance, the utterly disgraceful manner in which some poked fun at the recent death of a member of the GB.)
Is that a "judgment call" on my part? Hell yes! I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Yes -- I do believe that my opinions on certain matters are better than other people's opinions. Otherwise, I would not have those opinions. You do the same. We all do. It's a fundamental part of life. We need to make judgment calls.
I take issue with you insinuating that I believe that some people are bad simply because of their behavior, though. I don't think anyone -- not even the most horrible killer -- is utterly and hopelessly bad. Actions, behaviors, attitudes -- they are what is wrong, not the person. I think that type of "judgmentalism" -- if you wish to call it that -- is fundamentally different from that of the JWs.
That being said -- yes, I think some here make outlandish and/or bitter comments which are unneccessary and harmful -- to themselves and others.
I utterly and wholeheartedly stand behind everything I have written in this thread.
Bradley
If all you want to do is say something then retreat and read how everyone agreed with you, join the WT writing committee and read the dubbish fan mail about your latest article on the Sesame Street Witnessing work.
All the same, I do believe that the sensationalism on this site is less than fully efficacious. I do believe that people make statements about the JWs which are unfair at best, downright nasty at worst. (For instance, the utterly disgraceful manner in which some poked fun at the recent death of a member of the GB.)
Efficacious - now there's a word straight from the kingdom melodies! However, it means "suitable for accomplishing a purpose" and I must ask you - what purpose are you referring to? Are you "implying" (shudder) that we as apostates have the common goal of drawing the dubs away from the WT? Because I don't. I think the actual purpose of this board is to discuss issues we as survivors have with the Borg.
One of the major issues we have with the leadership is the way they demand to be treated as gods on earth - the way they assume an aura of holiness and incorruptibility. We are sickened by our former attitude toward them that treated every burst of "verbal diarrhea" on their part as drops of gold from Heaven itself. Hence, humor lets us "bring them down to earth" and helps us realize that they are just human beings on our level.
I do agree that sometimes statements are made that are unfair or disingenous (sp?) and you would be right to watch out for things like that, and sharply correct them when they are made.
I missed that thread about the GB's death. Which one are you referring to? They are dropping like flies. Link, please.
CZAR
