What Was "IT" That Finally Made You Leave The "Truth"? (page 9)

minimus

Once again, this thread helps me appreciate the wealth of experience that is on this board. And the experiences! My. No wonder you left the "truth". For those that have left it but for various reasons, still have to go-----my heart goes out to you.

got my forty homey?

DAMN, DAMN,DAMN

Shot down again by a fellow poster!

The last time I was in a woman was at the statue of liberty!

HELP

minimus

You're too good for Red Witch. Besides, Lady Liberty already knows ya.

Singing Man

It is their draconian way of dealing with sinners is what proves to me they are NOT the true faith nor do they have inspiration from NO deity of loving origin.

nelly1

god I so relate to what all of you have said and mysterious what you said about people of the so called world... I have experienced this too... i get and got more love from the world than the so called loving congregation.

I read these posts and I just shake my head because I relate to them sooo well....everything you all have said is soo accurate...i wasted 13 years of my life doing what I thought was right the only thing i might have gained is some knowledge and some maturity... but im soo much happier now its not even funny...i look back and i was going thru the most terrible traumas on my own and i mean they were dickensian horror stories... with 3 kids in the early years and I went through them all alone

i was labelled by those so called loving elders and their cronie mates as being a hot potato in the too hard basket HOW CHRISTLIKE!!!

its like you say absoultely so far from being like christ was that its not even funny....

hate to be them at armageddon... like has been said on the thread...who wants to live in that misery...i know i dont and im so glad i got out when i did

i never want to go back and i dont care if i have to die as a result i cant live like that anymore....id rather have a few years of happiness before i die..

heres a bunch of huggs for all of you

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[HUGGSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

LOVE NELLY

shamus

Nelly,

I, too, feel just like you. I would rather be dead than have to live with them. That is completely sincere too.

There is a hell. It is in kingdumb halls all over the planet.

minimus

Most JW's are PETRIFIED of dying at Armageddon. They do not ever want to die! They want the hope of "millions now living will never die". They desperately want to believe that if they just hang on a little more---that they'll make it into the new system. Meanwhile, they are not enjoying life RIGHT NOW!!!!

blondie

AlanF mentioned this as his what got him thinking it wasn?t "the truth." I looked it up and it is quite interesting, a prime example of the WTS overreaching themselves and the Bible. Afterwards are the letters readers sent in and the WTS response. I have bolded some statements that are quite outrageous.

For example, in late 1983 the Awake! had an article on why evolution was a bad thing. It argued that some people don't believe in God because of the nastiness of the created world in the sense that predators can hardly be the product of a loving God, but that that still argues for creation rather than evolution. The article dealt with the problem of how, if all animals were created to be vegetarians, some came to be predators by saying something like, "After Adam sinned, it's no wonder that the creation fell into chaos." That's an extremely stupid argument and explains nothing. I mean, how would Adam's sinning cause spiders to aquire poison fangs and begin eating other insects? How could snakes decide to grow poison fangs and begin eating other animals? Snakes don't need fangs to subdue fleeing bananas. Several months later Awake! published a few critical letters from readers taking them to task for this bit of stupidity, and the answers amounted to yet more simpleminded excuses. It think it was this nonsense that finally broke the camel's back and led me to decide not to be an active JW anymore.

10/8/82 Awake pp. 11-13 When All Nature Will Be in Harmony

Not Designed to Kill

Yet, what about the features of animals and humans that are used for maiming and killing? Since God created a vast variety of different features, many of them could be adapted to the new situation to help in survival . (doesn?t this indicate some conscious choice, a mental level beyond animals?)

For instance, most animals would continue to eat vegetation, as is the case down to this day. An example is the powerful gorilla, with its awesome fangs?fangs still used to rip and consume heavy vegetation. But others adapted themselves to eating flesh . Yet predators make up only a very small percent of the animals.

Man, too, has adapted (these were conscious choices, can man be compared to animals in the Bible world?) In his imperfection and waywardness, he often uses his mind and hands to maim and kill. He has even cannibalized other humans for food. And his teeth can be adapted to eating meat , though that was not included in his diet in Eden.

But what of the "balance of nature "? If there was no killing, how would this be maintained? For one thing, it was man who was to live forever on earth. That promise was not given to animals. They would die when their life span was completed.

Also, many animals have built-in mechanisms that reduce their fertility when overcrowding occurs . And this is without God?s direct intercession now. Surely, when God?s time comes for all the earth to be brought back into that peaceful Edenic condition, it will be no great thing for the Grand Designer of animals and humans to control their numbers without violence.

An example of how God can subdue the violence in animals was the peace that existed among beasts and humans for about a year in Noah?s ark . (I thought that animals were at peace from their creation until after they got out of the ark???)

Keep in mind that what exists today is not what it was like in the paradise of Eden. That environment was vastly different. Many foods were likely different. Probably the animals with hardier teeth had rougher food. Their teeth were designed for that .

Certainly there are questions that cannot now be answered about the exact conditions in Eden. But this does not argue that there was no Designer.

1/8/83 Awake p. 28 From Our Readers

Design in Nature

Your articles on design (October 8, 1982) are absolute rubbish. If nature was designed by a designer, who designed the designer? If God was self-created, what prevents nature from being self-created? If God is eternal, why can?t nature be equally eternal

N. B., Scotland

There is overwhelming evidence of design in nature. In human experience design does not exist without purposeful intelligence. The designing Creator of all things has existed throughout all eternity, and creation demonstrates his qualities. (Psalm 90:2; Romans 1:20) The fact of radioactive decay proves that existing matter had a beginning.?ED.

I am profoundly disturbed by your article "The Design in Nature." Surely, when Almighty God announced that ?to every wild beast of the earth I have given all green vegetation for food? he meant that he had provided green vegetation as the basis of the food chain

R. B., England

I found your article convincing as concerns the principle that design requires a designer. But on page 11 you make the statement that features of animals that are used for maiming and killing have evolved by adaptation to the new situation in Eden. Can this be said of the poison that some snakes and spiders use to kill their prey? What of other ingenious instruments of various kinds of predators. How can they exist if not by creation

D. K., Germany

We did not claim that certain features evolved by adaptation, but that existing features were put to a different use from what was originally purposed. We do not believe it is possible to establish for a certainty how things were in the distant past by observing the present. Conditions have changed. But we do have a clear statement from the past, namely Genesis 1:29, 30: "And God went on to say: ?Here I have given to you all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To you let it serve as food. And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth and in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food.?" This does not mean that vegetation was merely the ultimate basis for food supply through a chain of animal life. Obviously it was not the case with humans because later when they were to begin to get some nourishment from animal flesh they had to be given a special concession. (Genesis 9:3) Further, during the Flood of Noah?s day, eight humans and ?flying creatures and all moving animals of the ground? were obliged to live on vegetable matter exclusively for more than a year. (Genesis 6:17-21) And the fact that Isaiah 11:6-9 and 65:25 specifically state that former predators will be at peace with other animals, and the lion will eat straw like the bull, would seem to confirm that animals and humans were meant to be vegetation eaters.

As for the many predators being suited for the chase and the kill, what about humans? They have shown an extremely efficient talent for attacking and killing their fellowman. Does that argue for humans? being designed that way from the beginning? Admittedly, we cannot answer all questions that arise in this matter from what we can observe today, and the account in the Bible is quite brief. Yet, we believe that humankind and animal kind were originally designed to live at peace with one another and to get their nourishment from vegetation. That original purpose will be restored during the Messianic Kingdom. We will have to wait and see how those prophecies are fulfilled.?ED.

minimus

Blondie--You are the #1 RESEARCHER here on JWD. CONGRATS!!!

What Was "IT" That Finally Made You Leave The "Truth"?

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