I am stunned!!...CharitablePlanning

by sf 51 Replies latest jw friends

Mulan

Hi kiddo. I felt so helpless when you were telling about this on the chat. But, at least it IS on the web. We just didn't know it. Thanks for the alert!! Hope you are feeling better today.
Mulan/Marilyn
LDH

I wonder if the reason they want the 'Sample Letter' destroyed is so that they can't be sued by disgruntled family members for 'coercion' or some other such thing?
HMMMM Why else would you request the sample letter be destroyed?
somebody

hi scally,
I'm sorry I wasn't on yahoo yesterday. :-(
I feel like I did when I first read Ray's book Crisis of Conscience"; like I was punched deep in the gut and can't catch my breath.
If I would have known it was going to effect you in this way, I would have tried to warn you first. I must say, that I was ANGRY when I got mine. I was completely amazed at the gall of it all! Zev was too, that night we were discussing it in the yahoo chat. I wanted you to call and get the brochure to see for yourself. I didn't know it was on the net already, but I'm glad it is! Here are 2 links where it has been discussed on the board, and stephenw20 was the one who suggested we order one.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=4051&site=3#50590
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=4340&site=3#51524
I have two watchtowers here that actually "encourage" children to donate their money/allowance to the society too. I'll find the and post the "ecouragement" from them soon. Maybe you should take a mild sedative before I post them though(tee hee). Multi-billions of dollars just aren't enough for the WBTS! I can't belive how low they stoop.
Seriously, I'm sorry that the brochure upset you so much, but most of all, I'm sorry I wasn't there to let you get your rage out.
One thing I noticed too, on the last page of the brochure ( page 32), the society is oh so very nice in realizing that "questions may reamain" for those who want to give chritable gifts and estates to the them. They say that the WELCOME telephone calls and letters and want to work with you!. If it has to do with dollar signs, they are so nice. Aren't they? And look what happens if any follower/member has questions about the Bible? Suddenly, they don't realize that questions remain. They don't welcome phone calls or letters on that subject either. The letters get sent from the society to their elders, and a file is kept on them! It all makes me wanna hurl! And the letter that comes with the brochure makes me ill too.
peace,
somebody
Tallyman

SEEKER sed:
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Hi Scally,
I'm very familiar with this CDA business, and it's fairly common knowledge.
What I'm not sure about is why it struck you this hard?
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Bekause sKally is a young, impressionable girl and has a right good
sense of justice... and to suddenly become aware of this partikularly
STINKY piece of Kult Bullshit... well, her reaktion was justifiable.
Why should that surprise you Theeker, or kause you to be un"sure"?
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Yes, we all know what we think of the WTS, but JWs think of it as their religion,
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Oops! you said "but". I always look for those butts, I mean 'but's.
Since WHEN, Shuge, do the Kult jWs think of themselves as a "religion"?
"Religion Is A Racket And A Snare"...
that ain't never changed since da Judge bellowed it out!
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and people in all religions like to donate money to their favorite cause. It provides tax benefits to them, and helps the religion.
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Heeee. It helps the Kult (UNLIKE "all" "religions") pay off Lawsuits, Settle Out of Court With Big $$$s and Pay The 'Hush Money'... like a case we had here in western North Carolina of a jW sister who'd been called on the carpet by the local elders and in the Judicial Committee Meeting, they not only browbeat the shit out of her, one of them actually PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED her. They got worried and after waiting a length of time, called "911" to get the Rescue Squad over to the Kingdom Hall to give this sister medical attention.
Well, to make a long story short (and us X-Dubs here in Raleigh kept track of the crime in the news media and through the grapevine), the sister and her husband (the husband was gonna Settle The Score Out of Court with these Bully Elders, but then remembered Judge Wapner's words) took the elders to court in a Big Law Suit.
Speaking of suit, weren't long before the Big Suits from Brooklyn Legal Department were down to North Carolina, and we don't know what was said behind closed doors between the plaintiff and her attorneys and the defendants' Watchtower Attorneys... but doncha know... the case went : : : p o o f ! : : : Yep. Done Disappeared. Someone bound to have succumbed to The Lure Of Money.
When those 'Out of Court Settlements' are made, the agreement is that the plaintiff is gagged and is strictly prohibited to talk about the terms of the settlement or the facts surrounding the case!
Now where, Theeker, do you suppose those Big Bucks for $ettlement came from?? ... uhh, could it be from the hard earned money and estates and wills and properties that the Rank & File donate to the Watchtower, through this pissant piece of krap that sKally just discovered?
You Betcha!
"just like people in all religions"... gimme a break!
With the aforementioned case here in NC, imagine the disappointment
all us Apostates felt in Raleigh. NOW, the case, and the facts of the case and the nasty little details of how these "men of gawd" assaulted a frail sister in a "house of worship", all in the name of "keeping the congregation clean"... (to borrow a phrase from Venice...
"HaaaaHaaaaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh!")
... well now, since there was an 'out of court settlement' paid to this sister and her husband by the Watchtower society, (hey, they got the money - it's called "Contributions For The Kingdom Work" - ) the case never went to trial and the Watchtower accomplished what they set out to do - KEEP IT OUT OF COURT! - because, that way there is no transcript of a trial, which would be entered into the Public Record and ANYONE could read it or publish it or create a website(s) and circulate the Dastardly Deeds of the WT around the World!
...that was the main source of our disappointment, when word came down, that the sister 'backed down'...
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All religions have this, and this booklet is a way of explaining the legal steps involved to do things by the book.
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"to do things by the book"... heee, that's RICH, Theeker.
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Why is this shocking?
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Why wouldn't this be shocking to sKally?
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Just genuinely curious.
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Just genuinely curious to your reaction to sKally's reaction.
.
Seeker

Tally,
You completely ignored the point of my post. I'm not talking about the way WE view this religion, but the way the average JW thinks about their religion. And yes, it is a religion to them, and Rutherford's "Snare and a racket" concept has been out of date for many years.
For all the atrocities this religion is responsible for, the average JW remains totally ignorant of such things. They like their religion and want to support it. The law allows for donations to be made to such organizations. There are steps that should be taken. This brochure explains how to do it.
Now if they required each JW to get this brochure, and to study it in the bookstudy, and to have each bookstudy conductor to witness each publisher signing away their money, I could understand the rage. But they don't. Some witnesses (and ex-witnesses, evidently) have never even heard of this arrangement and this brochure. You have to ask for it to see it. It's not as if it's being pushed in people's faces.
Be outraged about the WTS as much as you want, and I share your feelings for my own life has been irrevocably altered by my experiences and I'm not happy about it. But I still don't understand why this particular brochure is causing such rage in people.
This is genuinely puzzling to me, and I would appreciate a serious response, not name-calling and ridicule.
sf

Thankyou for the thoughtful replies and insightful too. And thank you for the links (url's). I had no idea it existed on the net. I now can paste it everywhere as to allow the nation to know.
I am feeling a bit better physically, yet I still have a very hard time even trying to get thru the first three pages. It is so disturbing for mySELF to "witness" such a well-oiled machine and how well it's all documented in a way that the reader (they think i am a jw btw...bwahhhhhhhhhhh) has no clue that once you "donate" ANYTHING as asset, you have, bound by the "CDA" contract!! (yes, thats exactly what it is) given up all to the SOCIETY and they decide when and how much, if any, you will ever see again.
Now, I have just got off the phone with my attorney to ask what my next step is in retaining all files on me that the WTBTS and/ or my step"father" who is the very elder who dfed me, then married my mom two years LATER. I want all paperwork with my name on it, in my attorneys hands; and pronto! Then I want to see if they have actually signed up to this "CDA". So many pieces of this horrible puzzle are coming together. It's all explaing so many things that we, as kids, and teenagers, "witnessed" our mom become, as she KONtinued her journey into this "abyss" they call the mnost loving org on earth!
Perhaps I'll read it with my attorney so he can "witness" for himself as he reads it, exactly how slimey the legal dept of the WTBTS really is. He will also "witness" my reaction to the incredible verbage the writers use to convey such "love for gods kingdom". sigh
Why the shock you ponder? My mom built her life up one step at a time, without many educational skills due to the fact she had to be a mom herself to her brother while her mom drank her life away basically. She went on to become a great cytologist/patholigist simply by observing my great grandmother who worked at a head hospital in los angeles and trained her. She at that time put us in foster care for a couple years to gain that knowledge. This was after i went thru multiple surgeries and tortureous physical therapy to gain strength in my body. (another chapter, another day) She came and got us and we settled near our grandparents in the valley. Mom got her own apartment with four kids and her job was going very well. Sure, it wasnt perfect, but it was bliss...in my mindseye, it was sheer bliss. I was finally out of the hospital and home. Public schools, friends, huge holiday gatherings, spankings, yelling, drinking, picnics, bbq's, vacations across four states in a car with melting crayons, etc...life was good! Then a freight train hit us one day, out of the blue, and life has never, ever been the same.
If she gave a CONDITIONAL DONATION to this korrupt, kriminal kult, and she did it long ago, then what exactly will this mean for her WHEN the day comes she wants out and wants her assets back????
sigh~~~~~~(feels good to release this vomit)
Again, thank you for being there yesterday people. But I refuse to believe that I am the only one who has been effected by this in this magnitude. And I also don't expect everyone to fully understand/comprehend why this would disturb and set me into a rage. Perhaps if are repulsed by the way the tower KONtinues to operate, you would. I'm supposing its some underlying f.e.a.r. that I feel thats impending. All I know is I'm glad I can "vomit" like I did yesterday and people were kind enough to "hold back my hair" and stand aside and let it rip. bwahhhhhhhhhhhh it pretty messy and if some of it got on you and effected you, i apologize for that.
Sincerely, sKally (getting her affairs in order klass)
Tallyman

Seeker sed:
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Tally,
You completely ignored the point of my post.
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"completely" ? Theeker, why are you so dogmatic and all-inclusive?
I think you ignored MOST of the thrust of my post.
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I'm not talking about the way WE view this religion, but the way the average JW thinks about their religion. And yes, it is a religion to them, and Rutherford's "Snare and a racket" concept has been out of date for many years.
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See, that's part of what you ignored in my post.
"It" is NOT a "religion" to jWs.
They see "It" (for some reason a book by Stephen King comes to mind)
as "True Worship",... NOT "religion".
That koncept is STILL kurrent with the Kultists.
You are out of date, Theeker.
Have I brought you 'up to speed'?
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For all the atrocities this religion is responsible for, the average JW remains totally ignorant of such things. They like their religion and want to support it.
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How can we carry on a meaningful conversation, if you persist in thinking that the jWs think of themselves as a "religion"?
RELIGION is something WORLDLY to the jWS... and Religions will be destroyed-destroyed-destroyed at the Big 'A'
You wrote: "the average JW remains totally ignorant of such thing", above. You said "totally".
Why are you STILL so dogmatic? Even the average jW is not TOTALLY unaware of the "atrocities" committed by The Kult. They just stick their heads back in the sand, cop-out, and (here comes the mantra:) "Waaaaaaait on jeeehooovver" to eventually "fix" what is wrong.
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The law allows for donations to be made to such organizations.
There are steps that should be taken. This brochure explains how to do it.
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If the "law" KNEW what "such" an organization like the Watchtower actually did and does in the 'name of god'... they'd strip away their
tax-exempt status and hopefully throw most of the Bastard Leaders in jail.
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Now if they required each JW to get this brochure, and to study it in the bookstudy, and to have each bookstudy conductor to witness each
publisher signing away their money, I could understand the rage.
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"They" did not "require each jW" to believe that 1975 would be The End, but look what happened. Theeker, there is such a thing as the Theokratic Grapevine, you know?
S u g g e s t i o n s are made, either in print, like in the pre-1975 "Kingdom Ministry"s about how nice it would be for the brothers and sisters to sell their homes and businesses and go into the pioneer work and such... and the verbal "suggestions" floated around the organization like a Montana Wildfire!
THAT'S the way it works. The "average" jW knows about this CDA piece of Krap. jW "awareness" of an "arrangement" doesn't always come in the form of a print piece, or in a book study.
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But they don't.
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But they do.
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Some witnesses (and ex-witnesses, evidently) have never even heard of this arrangement and this brochure.
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But they have.
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You have to ask for it to see it.
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A jW doesn't have "to ask" to become aware of something going on in their "True Worship Organization" (not Religion).
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It's not as if it's being pushed in people's faces.
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Theeker, ... that is truly flabbergasting.
PUSHY PEOPLE PUSH - they give as much as receive... and vice versa.
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Be outraged about the WTS as much as you want, and I share your feelings for my own life has been irrevocably altered by my experiences and I'm not happy about it.
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Huh. It almost sounds as if you are a bit of a Kult Apologist on this topic, Theeker.
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But I still don't understand why this particular brochure is causing such rage in people.
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Hey, maybe NBC's "Dateline" Show will mention this CDA brochure along with their piece on Watchtower Pedophilia, and we'll see if it causes
"such rage in people"...
but, uh! I guess it would be hard to separate which rage is which.
Nevermind.
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This is genuinely puzzling to me, and I would appreciate a serious response, not name-calling and ridicule.
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My response was serious. (and so is this one)
And you, what with being a seeker and all, I am genuinely puzzled by your failure to understand sKally and Somebody and others' reactions...
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Seeker

Scally,
Thank you for your response, for now I understand your reaction, and how it is a personal one for you based on your experiences. I can understand that.
Tally,
You're wrong. JWs do view it as a religion. Your ideas were true decades ago, not any more except among JWs who didn't keep up.
I'm not an apologist for JWs, and you know it very well. To treat me as you have in this thread is shocking and appalling. You know better and should be ashamed of using You Know tactics on me. I deserve better.
I stand for truth and accuracy in all things. If the WTS does something wrong, I expose it. If they do something right, I applaud it. If they do something like this, the CDA, that is neither awful nor wonderful, I'm neutral. To see people reacting: "OHMIGOD, THEY ACCEPT VOLUNTARY DONATIONS!!!!" seemed a bit extreme to me, but now that Scally explained her personal background, I can understand why she would feel this way. All I wanted was an explanation, and what you did, Tally, was uncalled for.
Tallyman

Seeker,
You just told me, "You're wrong. jWs do view it as a religion."
Why don't you go down to your local friendly Kingdom Hall and act like an interested person, and take a random Straw Poll? Ask whoever jW you encounter if they view their Kult as a "religion" (...uhh, but it might be best not to use the word 'kult')
... come back here to the DB, and let's see if you retract that statement.
Several times, YOU came across like You Know - d o g m a t i c .
Seeker, I tangled with you over on H2O, and I reserve the right to tangle with you here, if I see fit. WHAT was "appalling or shocking"?
I am "genuinely puzzled" at your reaction.
You actually wrote: "If the WTS does something right, I applaud it."
WHAT THE HELL does the WTS do "right"??
I'll imitate your dogmatism for a momento:
The Watchtower Kult Does NOT do ANYTHING "right"!
If you are a High Demand, Destructive, Abusive, Mind-Kontrol Kult, which is thoroughly Korrupt and EVIL, ... just what is it, that is "right" about it, that they do?
What?
What?
What?
If you look hard enough, you could be an Apologist for Hitler and The Third Reich.
You said: "I'm neutral".
You sure didn't come across as "neutral"...
You wrote that you "now" ... can "understand" why sKally feels the way she does about this CDA Krap.
Multiple that "understanding" by Thousands!
Seeker, what you done sed 'bout me, was "uncalled" for...
...you done hirt mah feelin's ..
.
Seeker

Of course I'm neutral on this issue. I began by asking a question so I could gain empathy. Your attack on me caused me to change my tone.
The Watchtower Kult Does NOT do ANYTHING "right"!
And you call me dogmatic? That is an absurd statement. Of course they do some things right. Your thinking is black-and-white. The WTS is corrupt, but not every last thing within it is bad. Think rationally.
As for whether or not it's a "religion," that's too easy. Of course they call it a religion. "How can a person tell the true religion?", their articles ask. "What sets the right religion apart?" other articles talk about. "What religion are you?" "I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses" they answer.
Rutherford's time has come and gone, and that old distinction made about the world "religion" is long over.
Believe what you want, Tally, but you'll lose your potential audience if you stick to outdated ideas. I'm not interested, and this is now going way off-topic in this thread. If you wish to debate this further, start a new thread.
As for tangling with me, you are always welcome to do so. It was your tactics I objected to. I asked a simple question and you came down on me as if I were a dub, and threw out a whole lot of irrelevant data. It did not address my question, and it treated me as if I were ignorant of WTS atrocities. Since you know better, I felt that particular type of response was rude. So tangle with me all you want, but if you do objectionable things I will object.

I am stunned!!...CharitablePlanning

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