What was really going on with Abel? Does anyone find the story of Cain and Abel screwed up.

by liam 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    Excellent question and excellent points raised, I found also the following:

    Some sages, like Ibn Ezra, suggest that God's acceptance of Abel's sacrifice was partly a divine mystery, intended to teach humility and trust. Genesis 4:7 ("If you do well, will you not be accepted?") implies that Cain could have been accepted with the right heart, but Abel's offering aligned more closely with God's will.

    So regardless the kind of sacrifice if Cain approach God with the right heart and with just offering vegetables the account would have been very different. Both sacrifices would have been accepted

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    Cain seems like a hard core vegan. Have you met some of those guys? All you do is get a nice BBQ going, get it smelling really nice, and they flip out and get violent... start talking about hitting you over the head with rocks. Seems like maybe Cain was one of those protein starved vegans, ready to snap at the thought of a burger.

    That's the story. Right from God's inspired word - don't be a vegan.

  • Bribie
    Bribie

    But Adam and Eve were vegan and they were perfect!

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    Just goes to show what a fine piece of work Jehovah is .

  • blondie
    blondie
    Just goes to show what a fine piece of work Jehovah is . Or as humans have presented him to other humans in print.
  • Balaamsass2
    Balaamsass2

    When you accept that the Bible is the written record of hardscrabble Bronze Age goatherders (carnivores) and not the creator of the universe, everything makes more sense.

    Their life was hard, so they believed god must be an angry sociopath who desired blood sacrifice for appeasement.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    Most of the stories in the Bible didn’t actually happen, so taking them literally is pointless. I’ve heard some good and bad explanations on the story. Take it as a moral story, Abel according to the story is a good person and things go well for him, and for whatever reason it doesn’t go well for Cain and God warns Cain to master his sin and then he too will be accepted. Instead of emulating the ideal of Abel, he goes and kills the thing he should become. And there is a lot of depth in that, these stories have been written and rewritten over thousands of years, distilling ideas about the nature of man, about sin, murder, living together, civilization and conflicts etc.

    The original language is very interesting because the names all have meanings, some of the words have double meanings and probably a lot of commentary on it has been lost, so our translations are relatively poor as we don’t get the context fully.

    And I agree with some of the others here, since about the Victorian era, we in the West have quite literally been coddled when it comes to the realities of humans. Veganism/vegetarianism is a luxury, back then, everyone’s best would have to be meat in order to ‘sacrifice’, from that perspective, meat is very valuable. Some people translate it as being the result of agriculture, but the meaning of the words could also imply he just picked up some random fruit that had fallen off the tree, so minimal to no effort (the words literally translated mean he ‘gathered fruits from the earth’)

    Even if you want to take ‘god’ out of it, it is rich in meaning, without putting ‘effort’ into things people aren’t going to accept your work, but you can’t then be jealous if your work doesn’t get accepted. The rest of the story of punishment and walking the earth unable to be killed/die etc, again, lots of ‘lore’ to go into and if you think about it, given this is one of the first stories, you can deduce from it why certain laws keep coming back in every civilization.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    ...not that my tuppence ha'penny is of any use.....

    I think (and this is my own personal view), there's a lot more metaphor in some of these scriptures than we'd at first see. I don't think some of the OT is to be taken literally.

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    The story of Cain and Abel is also very brief and lacking in details. From their birth to Abels' death is only eight verses in Genesis.

    The story does not give any clue as to why God rejected Cain's offering. It seems as if the story is more about Cain's reaction to the result. It sounds more like a cautionary tale about jealousy. I'm not sure if there is any meaning to the way the story assumes that the world was already well-populated with at least one established city. It would indicate that Cain and Abel had lived quite a long time before they offered up these sacrifices and before Abel was murdered. Cain only took a wife after this happened. It has all the hallmarks of a fable.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    I think it supports the new testament theme.

    Genesis 4:2 tells us that Abel kept flocks as a shepherd and Cain worked the soil, growing produce like fruit. When we think about Adam and Eve, they sinned with the fruit of the garden. Cain brought the Lord some fruit as an offering (Genesis 4:3) from his labors.

    Humanity sinned by eating the forbidden fruit. Abel brought the Lord his firstborn fat portions from his flock. God looked favorably on Abel’s offering. What we have offered the Lord is our sin; our labor, we have nothing good to give him. We are like Cain. We think our good works should be good enough for God. They aren't. The Law requires a death penalty for sin.

    “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away” (Isaiah 64:6).

    God says that not only are our sins filthy, but our deeds we estimate to be righteous are considered filthy rags as well.

    That is a huge problem.

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