ok someone answer me this then!

by zelevis 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • zelevis
    zelevis

    well if u read my last thread im not going to post here anymore...its not that u say ur hurt by the WTS...its the hate u carry inside to speak out against them but u dont say how much theve helped families such as my own based on the BIBLE and nothing else

    that is the part that makes me sick to my stomach ... so sorry if u all pute a "TROLL" stamp on eme whatever that is but u all have ur own congregation in here but instead of it being a loving godly one is a hatfull one against the wts. but done in a loveing way though all ur eyes ..maybe thats what u think good bye

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface
    hey PAL, its gods word to get involved in an organization that teaches gods word and only gods will, sure its high standards (1) which include the shunning of those who are part of the world...u chose to live alive as the world does look in the world and look in the organization of jehovahs witnesses ....umm can u see why they chose to not associate with u (2) ..... "a person who knows teh faith and choses not to follow it is worse then a person who doesnt know (3) it" that is in my word but its on the bible
    USE THE BIBLE (4) SMART (5) ASS ULL SEE WHY
    or go find new friends or something (6)


    WOW ... ZELEVIS ... Very interesting BS ! did you talked about "high standards (1)" ?!!! Now you know why WE ARE NOT ASSOCIATED with you and them (2) !

    Apparently you don't know (3) that much yourself ... (should we care ???) ... You may laught about it one day, and maybe not (depends on the time and part of your life you will have loste in it) !

    Use something else yourself (4) ... you may getting more informed (5) about who you are following !

    Thanks that is exactly what we are doing (6) JW friends are quiet weak !!!

    oh so u are an apostate wow have fun ...go around hating people and thing u are with god (7)? lololol

    More interesting than ever, Jesus was an appostat (do you remember for who ?)
    And now who are you with (7) (get a clue)

    umm im not baptized so how can i be df'd....do some reaserch (8) PAL thats right pick up a book it might help to know ur abc's aswell hahahaha

    Before you get totally hysterical with your hahahahaha ... Just remember to not geting baptised, you'll thank us later !!!

    Thank "PAL" but that is exactly what most of us did (8) ... WHAT ABOUT YOU ??? Ummmm ??? !!! Apparently you didn't otherwise you would know exactly what we are talking about ... !

    so can i ....umm who are u feeling it from?

    Again high standard ... you are ready to get baptised ! (your choice actually ! - just don't bother us in sining yourself ... BOOOOOOOO !)

    see by me talkn liek this to u maybe ull see how very ignortant u all sound!!!

    Yeah ... dream about it ... LOL ... Who are you ? ... Mister I KNOW IT ALL (what they told me) WITHOUT EVEN CHECKING !

    im actually bored right now and was actually looking to see if what the society says about u peopel is true and it is....

    I'm not ... That was as interesting as usual ! To see how you are getting bored about us in knowing that we didn't call you here ??? DID WE ?

    so much hate so much finger pointing but i dont see the jehovahs witnesses finger pointing THEY ALL MOVE ON AS AN ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO GOD...i dont care if u all hatr me or anyotehr witnesses i hate people point fingers .....

    Yeah MOVE ... dedicated to who you (think you are dedicated to) without checking (SURPRISE ! ...)

    Not gonna follow this thread ... You are not ready "PAL" !
    And check first (cause we already know what you believe in) ... WHAT DO YOU THINK ?!!!

    BOoooo ! ... run Zelevis run ... ARMAGEDON is COMMING ...

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Zelevis,
    How does Matt. 3:17 disprove the Trinity? The Trinity teaches that there are 3 Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who are one God. The Father wasn't talking to himself, he was talking to his Son. Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jehovah is God and Jesus is a lesser god. So, you believe in more than one god (Jesus), but choose to worship only one (Jehovah). I'll stick to the Trinity, thank you.

    Also, in Mark10: 18, is Jesus, who was without sin, saying he is no good? No, he is saying if you don't believe I'm God, why do you call me good? If Jesus is good and only God is good, than Jesus is God. See John 10:11 where Jesus indeed calls himself good, the Good Shepherd.

    As to Rev. 14:1 and 7:4-8, no one says that the number 144,000 doesn't appear there. We just don't believe that is the only number of people going to heaven. We also don't believe that a literal Lamb is standing on a literal Mount Zion in Jerusalem (is that where heaven is?) with the literal names of Jesus and Jehovah written on their foreheads. Nor do we believe that only virgin men make it to heaven (Rev. 14:4). Nor do we believe that only literal Jews from the literal 12 tribes are in heaven (Rev.7:4-8)

    People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. For years Jehovah's Witnesses have pointed to the failures and sins of people in other religions. I have read much anti-religious propaganda in Watchtower literature. If you haven't, you must not have read much of their literature. Now that the sins of Jehovah's Witnesses are being pointed out, why should you be so upset? Do you think they have no sins?

    As to hating you. If you think I do, you're wrong.

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    Zelvis-

    First of all, I want you to know that I was never a baptized witness. Not everyone in this forum was a Witness. Yes, the majority of people in here are or were. I say "are" because there are several self-admitted "still-going-to-meetings" Witnesses who post regularly in here. But some of us have family members who are witnesses, and we want to better understand the religion. Some come here because they were studying and wanted to make sure they were making the right choice to become baptized. Some people come here to discuss JW doctrine. Some come here to discuss Christianity. Some people come here for friendship. Many come here because the only sense of being understood can only be gotten from others who have similar backgrounds. Still others come here because it is the only "family" they have that will acknowledge their existence. Some people "lurk" and never post. And some people are here only to spew hatred.

    Have you examined your motives as to why you are here yet? Have you decided whether you came in here for a fight, or for answers?

    In my humble opinion, it appears as if you came in here for a fight. And if I am wrong, I challenge you to prove that to us - RESPECTFULLY. This is a very forgiving group of people who would be more than happy to help you with answers to the questions you seek. But I guarantee you, you will get no cooperation, and only a MIRROR of the behavior you are exhibiting if you continue on the track you are going. You ARE welcome here, but you can't stop spewing your hatred long enough to see it.

    The choice is yours - do you want to be a respected member of this forum, or are you better off in a forum where the people share your beliefs?

  • Celia
    Celia
    but u dont say how much theve helped families such as my own based on the BIBLE and nothing else

    well, you haven't told us anything about you, your family and your experience with the Watch Tower Society, Please do, we would love to know.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    zelvis has left the building.....

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    No way, Logansrun!

    He's still reading every single post on his threads. He's too angry to just walk away. I hope he comes back and is a little nicer next time, because there are a lot of people who would love to help him with the questions he has.

    growedup

  • oredigger
    oredigger

    Zelvis,

    Looks like you have a splinter of doubt just starting to ooze the subtle puss of unanswered questions,keep asking and then demand reasonable answers from those at your Hall, don't be spoon fed just because it's easier to swallow.

  • avishai
    avishai
    MOLISTING,

    Well, I can answer this for ya no problem. First, look under the child abuse posts. Read all of them. Then go to silentlambs.com. They can't all be made up right?

    Then, read this article, I KNOW this one was'nt made up. Tyler is my brother. This bastard, Chris mckenzie went on to molest over 40 more kids, because your "beloved orginization" refused to turn his sorry ass in. Thanx, JW's. So, yes, because of their policy, they have more molesters in the cong.s, because thier not in jail. Just that is enough for me, even if doctrinally they were sound on everything else. They let babies get raped to protect "Jehovah's name!" Jehovah is a big boy, & can take care of himself, IMO

    Post 736 of 756
    since 04-Feb-01

    Suit Targets Jehovahs Witnesses

    Benton complaint about sex abuse and church policy is said to be the first of hundreds across the U.S.

    The setup is such that the elders are the voice of the Watchtower, and the Watchtower is the voice of Christ. Theyre taught that if you take it to the elders, you get the best forum already that you could ever be in. Kimberlee Norris, Forth Worth Attorney

    10-6-02

    BY JENNUFER ROUSE

    MID-VALLEY SUNDAY

    A man is suing the and North Corvallis Jehovah's Witness congregations and the reli­gion's 'national headquarters for $3 million. The lawsuit accuses church leaders of ignoring the sexual abuse he suffered as a Child.

    The suit is the first of hundreds of mass filings against Jehovah's Witnesses planned by the law firm that filed it. The complaint names the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York and numerous other defen­dants. It alleges that when Tyler C. Davidow, now in his early 20s, was 4 or 5, a fellow Jehovah's Witness member abused him. His mother, Cathy Davidow, contends that when she went to the elders of the church, they did nothing to stop the abuse.

    Tyler and Cathy Davidow both declined to be interviewed. In this report, Mid-Valley Sunday is not iden­tifying the defendant also named in the suit because he could not be located to respond to the allegations.

    Jim Rifle, an elder from the congregation said ho couldn't comment on the situation because he didn't know anything about it and hadn't been served with court papers yet. "We'll address the matter when we are Informed of it through the proper channels," Riffe said.

    Steve Cuda, an elder from the congregation, also had not heard of the complaint and could not comment. It usually takes some time before are served with notice of civil complaints. Officials at the national headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in , didn't know of the suit either.

    However, J.R. Brown, a national spokesman for the organization, said that while Jehovah's Witnesses deal strictly with child abuse within the congregation, it isn't the church's job to report abuse. "Nothing prevents them from call­ing the authorities," Brown said. "They don't have to call us first. These things operate separately. If the offender is part of the congregation, we will deal with it in a church setting.

    But if they are also reported to the authorities, we will not try to shield them.

    A copy of the complaint was sent to the newspaper by attorney James G. Nelson. According to the lawsuit, Cathy Davidow owned a store called Blackbeard's Market 145 N.W. ,Corvallis , in the 1980s. While she worked at the market, she often brought with her and let rim play in a storage area, Mother and child were members of the con­gregation in 1989, Cathy Davidow employed a woman who, was a member of the congregation. According to the lawsuit, this woman often brought her teenage son with her to work, and, according to he lawsuit, he often stayed with in the storage area while he women worked.

    In 1985, according to the com­plaint told his mother that the teenager had been sex­ually abusing him for a year, and she went to the elders of her church.

    Kimberlee Norris, the attorney handling the case, said that Jehovah's Witnesses encourage church members to take complaints to he church leaders.

    The control issue is so strong in Jehovah's Witness corn congregation," Norris said. The setup is such that the elders are the voice of the Watchtower (the name of the Jehovah's Witness headquarters), and the Watchtower is the voice of Christ. Theyre taught that if you take it to the elders, you get the best forum already that could ever be in.

    According to the suit, when Davidow went to the elders of the church, they told her they would research the problem and take care of it and that she shouldn't tell anyone else aboutit.

    Oregon law requires members of the clergy, like teachersand social workers, to report any allegation of child abuse to disfellowshipping the police. However, another law (ORS 40.260) provides an exception if it is part of a church's religious practice to keep confidential communication secret.

    ­

    Brown, the national spokesman, said that Jehovah's Witness elders do report sex abuse in states where there are mandatory reporting laws.

    ­

    If it is a state that requires clergy to report, we of course would view that as taking precedence over ecclesiastical privilege," he said.

    Time passed, and Davidow didn't see anything being done, either to help her son of to discipline the offender. She continued to ask the elders what they were doing about the issue, the lawsuit says. Eventually, she contacted the elders at the congregation, where the alleged abuser and his mother were members.

    The elders of (Corvallis congregation) instructed her to stop talking about it, we've got it handled," the lawsuit states.

    In 1993, Davidow says she reported the matter to the Corvallis police .

    "For her to come to that point, as a Jehovahs Witness, you have to come to the point where youre willing to be shunned," Norris said.

    Jehovahs Witnesses teach that church members who rebel against the teachings of the church should be disciplined, for their own good, so that, they might repent and return to fellowship.

    That often takes the form of disfellowshipping all members of the congregation, even other family members, breaking all ties with the offender. An article on the Jehovahs Witnesses Web site mentions that even saying hello to a disfellowshipped person might be wrong.

    When Cathy Davidow finally reported her sons abuse to the police, she was disfellowshipped. was not disfellowshipped but chose to leave the faith on his own.

    The basis of the suit against the Jehovahs Witnesses is that the elders were negligent in failing to deal with the reports of sexual abuse. And according to Norris, it wasnt a simple oversight on the parts of elders in . She believes that child abuse in the Jehovahs Witness church is widespread because of the churchs policies.

    Its not that they intend for children to be molested by the dozens, Norris said. Its that their crummy policy allows this to happen. Theyre had notice upon notice that it is, in fact, occurring. At some point, does it rise to the level of gross negligence?

    Thats why the suit doesnt just name the two local congregations, but the churchs headquarters and subsidiaries in and . And Davidows suit is not the only one.

    Norris and a team of other attorneys are filing suits alleging negligence against the Jehovahs Witnesses organization in all 50 states. Davidows is the first because of the impending statute of limitations a civil suit for child sexual abuse cant be filed in Oregon after the victims reaches the age of 24.

    Norris said the mass filings are akin to a class action lawsuit.

    Norris first began working on the issue last May, when a woman approached her with a story similar to Davidows.

    Her initial allegations were so outrageous as to cause me concern as to if they were even truth, she said. After I began to investigate her situation and did research on other like situations, it became clear that what she experienced, and what others experienced, are systemic in the Jehovahs Witnesses organization.

    Since then, Norris said shes heard almost the same story from 200-300 different people.

    There are two specific Jehovahs Witnesses policies that Norris contends foster sexual abuse. One policy, she says, tells church members to report problems involving other believers to church leaders instead of police. The other is that the church requires two eye witnesses to an incident before the accused person can be punished.

    Brown, the Witness spokesman, said that while the church does require two eye witnesses or other compelling evidence before meting out any church discipline, thats beside church procedures. He said the church does not forbid members from reporting crimes to the police.

    Were not trying to deal with the penalty of the law, he said. Thats a separate thing from our point of view. Yes, an abuser should pay the penalty, even if he has to sit in jail for 10 -15 years.

    Norris said that despite what church leaders say about encouraging church members to go to they police if they wish to, that rarely, if ever, happens among Jehovahs Witnesses.

    Norris said that while Tyler Davidow does hope to reclaim damages for the emotional pain his unacknowledged child abuse caused him, he and the other people she represents have a larger goal in mind.

    "This is really difficult for him, but he wants to see policy change," she said.

    We want to change Watchtower Society policy that, in my opinion, fosters and encourages child abuse.

    Edited by - silentlambs on 7 October 2002 0:1:3
    IP: iC4d1G74lCYTe2nO

    Here's that article,

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