by hooberus 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The following is an interesting new arcticle on the freeminds site:
http://www.geocities.com/thewatchtowerstudy/bible.htm
It gives interesting information on JW bible interpretation gymnastics regarding verses on Jesus, showing that the WT in effect rejects the plain teachings of the Bible regarding Jesus.
I agree, it's well worth a read and perhaps keeping for reference.
One point I liked was this, that the WTS teaches that:
Jesus' body was not raised at all; rather "Jehovah" re-created Jesus as an invisible "spirit creature" (i.e.: an angel) after his three days of non-existence. Jehovah then dissolved the physical body of Jesus into nothingness.It's simple 'logic' like this that should make a real seeker of truth stop and question.......
It's simple 'logic' like this that should make a real seeker of truth stop and question.....
I think a REAL SEEKER of truth would seek to find out how real the story is in the first place.
As far as the bible goes on this matter.....I can see the dubs reasoning to a point. Paul says ressurected ones recieve a spiritual body in corinthians, and that there are different bodies for those in heaven. I could never understand the orthodox understanding that Jesus was lifted up with the same flesh and blood body he died with. A human type body in heaven?
Gumby
And anyway JWs believe the WT not the bible
hooberus:
I think we may need to make a distinction here between believing the Bible and accepting different interpretations of it. It is obvious that among those Bible believing religions there are vast differences in the interpretations of Scripture. Thus, we have numerous denominations existing. None would deny that they accept the Bible as "God's Word." But their doctrinal beliefs widely vary.
Perhaps, we would do better to imitate some of the Jewish scholars of the past. If any belief could be supported by scripture, the scholars would accept the other scholar regardless of how "far out" the doctrine appeared to the majority. JWs focus on those scriptures that indicate a spiritual resurrection of Christ: ... "being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit"....."flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God." One may totally disagree with their interpretations. But the scriptures stand without commentary and thus are open to interpretation.
My hope would be that JWs would make room for other interpretations except those of the Watchtower Society. But I also think it wrong for others to impose their own interpretations of scripture.
hooberus:
the WT in effect rejects the plain teachings of the Bible regarding Jesus.
Most of the bible is in fact obscure and open to interpretation. Your 'plain teachings' about Jesus are anything but, which is why there are so many different doctrines.
It's simple 'logic' like this that should make a real seeker of truth stop and question.....
I think a REAL SEEKER of truth would seek to find out how real the story is in the first place.It was thoughts and feelings such as these that motivated me to question and research the validity of the Bible, the god Jehovah, and even the existence of the man Jesus. The "real seeker of truth" must remove the extremely dark-glass of preconceived ideas and beliefs in order to see what is pure and untainted (truth). Indeed not an easy task. Often times most painful; letting go our tiny yet cherished beliefs and ideas. j
James Thomas:
I'm afraid it requires "faith" in any case. If one doesn't have faith in the Bible, one has faith in its critics and their conclusions. Critcs have come and gone with their theories as have the archeologists and scientists. What is "truth" one day is not the next.
Wish you success in your search. But a lifetime may not long enough, I fear. I choose to have faith in the simple teachings of Christ that encouraged love, compassion and mercy. How can one go wrong?
It's simple 'logic' like this that should make a real seeker of truth stop and question.....
Actually I made a mistake! I'd meant to say a real seeker of Bible truth etc but only realised it after posting and was too tired to edit it!
But the way it comes out seems to have been useful.
Wish you success in your search. But a lifetime may not long enough, I fear. I choose to have faith in the simple teachings of Christ that encouraged love, compassion and mercy. How can one go wrong?
Your wishes for my success are not needed, but I sincerely thank you for your thoughts and sentiments. Your absolutely right mizpah that "faith" -- no matter what you have it in -- changes. That's why there are so many different faiths; and I imagine no one persons "faith" is exactly like anyone else's. Faith, seems a pretty fickle thing to put ones faith in. The word "faith" implies a loyalty, allegiance, confidence or belief in a cause, person(s), plan, god or divine power. I, have no such faith in anyone or anything. Be it theological, philosophical or scientific. Do you need faith, or belief, that there is aliveness and awareness within you? Of course not. You are conscious and aware, to dispute it is to prove it. No faith, no belief needed. In fact, the mental gymnastics of faith and belief will only cloud and numb you to It. There is something beyond faith and belief my friend. That, which is very much here this moment. That, which is the very foundation of all existence. That, which is Presence, Awareness and Truth Itself. That, which we ignore because our focus and attention is on other things (like faith and beliefs in tiny anthropomorphic deities, or scientific theories).
I choose to have faith in the simple teachings of Christ that encouraged love, compassion and mercy. How can one go wrong?
That's great Mizpah, how can one argue against love, compassion and mercy? However, the foundation on which this Christian love is based is conditional and tainted. It is not true and pure unconditional-love. It requires that I accept Jesus as my Savior, or I will pay a price. A price I am not likely to appreciate or enjoy. However, o ne day I discovered something within myself, that shed much light on this subject. I have children and I help them when I can. I am there for them. They don't have to do anything in return. They can hate me (and at times some of them probably have), but I love them and always will, no matter their personal disposition or attitudes towards me. In other words: they have not the power to change my feelings or love for them. At times I may not like the way they act or the things they do, but the love is unmarked and unconditional. They don't have to accept me or love me in return for me to be there for them. I image most of us have this same degree of love within ourselves, weather we are aware of it or not. I discovered mizpah, innate depths of love within my own being that cast a shadow over the conditional love attributed to God and Jesus by the Christian religion. From that moment on I could no longer honestly and sincerely believe in or worship a God, a "most High", that seemed to possess a lesser love than the gift of love within me. In my view the Christian religion makes a mockery of God, our Source; by reducing It to tiny vengeful deity that will punish you if you do not feed it's ego with acceptance of him as The Savior. Because mankind and Societies are very diverse, labeling divinity with names like Jesus, Allah, Buddha Jehovah, whatever will only cause division and separation, and never bring us together. Better we looked within to what we all share in common. What is there already if we look deeply enough to see? Sadly, having "faith" in a religious "truth" seldom gives us such motivation or insight. Perhaps if we let go of such disparaging beliefs and "faith" about God, we may discover we have never been abandon or separated -- and we need do nothing to bath in unconditional divine love. j
