God is Real in Principle (page 16)

Landy

It's my own work, Landy. That's why it seemed rather long because I wanted to explain, the best way viable. It took me awhile to bring it off. "You simply seek to blame someone else for it rather than realize it's your own lack of an argument that is the cause of your current feelings." I'm not blaming anyone, Viviane, I'm just saying we don't see things the same way.

Well, it's one of a hell of a word salad. People's internet attention span (especially mine) is depressingly short so I struggled to read it. We're not marking your schoolwork here are we? ;)

Cool. But if I were to inherently say the topic at hand, the backlash might be worse. It was made in a way that I hoped people understood and some did. But the problem is that the ones that didn't insist on deducing me to get them to understand when they just don't and it's clear to me.

OrphanCrow

looter: I just said I wasn't blaming anyone. We just see things differently.

Looter, you have done this throughout this entire thread. Blame shifting. Denying responsibility. You aren't stupid - you just lack a sense of self.

Every time someone asks you to clarify a term or explain yourself better, you simply say "...oh, that's not what I meant. YOU misunderstood." At no time have you said, "oh, geez, I guess I didn't understand the terms I have used." You have just continued to say "...I didn't mean that! That word actually is a different word."

When someone questions you about a "claim"...you say "...that's not a claim, it an opinion". When someone questions you about a complaint...you say " it wasn't a complaint, it was a reason."

And on and on and on....

Looter, you have not answered questions about your statements, you have simply substituted another word when confronted with a term you lack the capacity to comprehend.

And your justification for this irrational behaviour? "Seeing" differently.

Well, Looter....you can continue to call it a tuna fish sandwich if you like, but, if it has four legs, walks low to the ground, is black with a white stripe running down its back...it ain't no friggin tuna fish sandwich. Your nose should tell you that even if you "see" differently.

And this whole whiny bit about "I am only 18." Let's put it this way...if ya belly up to the bar with the big boys, be prepared to deal with what the big boys pour out for you. I am not buying your "schtick". Joined this forum at 15, huh? And you still haven't learned anything these past 3 years?

looter

OrphanCrow if you want to call it "blame shifting". That's okay. But I disagree. "At no time have you said, "oh, geez, I guess I didn't understand the terms I have used." Because I did understand. What do you expect when every time you reply to someone they tell you that you're wrong or you don't know what you're talking and attempt to ask me another question so they can tell me the exact same thing regardless of what was said instead of trying to comply at least once. Here's the deal. I'm looking at it in the way of blaming because it's my idea. I never said that my idea was the absolute truth because it's just that, my idea.

Saename

looter - religious belief and the scientific module are two ways we as humans make sense of the world around us. In that way they are similar because they can lead humans to their path whether right or wrong.

You are so lucky I'm trying not to be arrogant. I'm usually arrogant in my debates. Much more arrogant.

What you're saying is way too general. Way too general. Again, so you can understand: WAY TOO GENERAL. Murder, racism, sexism, theft, generosity, love, mercy, forgiveness... They are also paths that can lead humans to either right or wrong. I guess they're similar, so why not sentence people to prison for showing love... because it's similar to murder? I hope you see why it's too general and hence should be immediately rejected.

looter - Someone who believes in God and feels that there is evidence in creation believes that it is "evidence" based on how they see it. . . . / Someone who has pride [in] and commitment to scientific faith bases their commitment on what they themselves see as validation.

Sure, it makes sense. It makes as much sense as this:

I don't think you took Social Sciences in high school... You'd at least know what the scientific method is...

looter - You remarked that the scientific method requires rejection of claims that don't involve refutable proof.

No, I said that the scientific method requires that one reject a certain claim in absence of both proof and evidence. Sometimes if there is not enough of either the claim also should be rejected.

If I believed that proof is the only way to accept a claim, I would not study the history of early Christianity. Ancient history does not deal in proofs or disproofs but in evidence—usually very scarce evidence. So, no, this is not what I claim at all.

looter - The thing is that a Christian's use of creation as proof can still be proof even though it's not consolable using the scientific method as it's created by man.

Yeah, you're right. God created his creation; therefore, creation is a proof of his existence.

I have no idea whatsoever how that could be similar to the scientific method...

looter - A believer trusts their decision to believe in God just like the person who is destined with the scientific method.

I thought I already debunked your claim that the scientific method uses faith.

looter - What truly makes us different from animals? It's our brain and how it exceptionally uses abstract techniques and a special cause to fix issues and communicate.

I'm not going to debunk the above since Viviane already did that. (Thank you, Viviane.) However, you do say later on that humans are unique, and then you try to somehow pinpoint evidence that we are in fact unique (which Vivane has been reasonably rejecting as well.)

I'm going to go even further and say that... humans are not unique at all. We are different from animals in the degree to which we can use rational thought etc. However, that does not make us unique. We are different because of evolution. Evolution can favour animals as much as it did favour our kind. What is so unique about that?

Unless you believe in creationism... But then I would deny to even talk to you... That would be way too nice of me. You know that verse from the Bible... You know... 2 John 1.10? "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."

Oh wait... I'm misquoting the Bible... Never mind!

.

Should I even continue? I think I lost all interest in this discussion...

OrphanCrow

sparky1

"It's never been easy for me to convey what I think but that was my fault for not writing that sentence right." - looter

Here's a tip looter. Learn to collect and solidify your thoughts before you put them to paper. Then present your ideas in the most succinct manner possible. Your overuse of language only detracts from the ideas you are trying to convey. Strunk's book is a classic and I highly recommend that you read it.

looter

Well, that was the point, Saename. That the two were similar. Obviously, the scientific method and the Christian way of life are different, right and wrong are opposites, we all know this, but I was just saying and pointing out that each can lead to righteousness or wrongness from an objective point of view. "I don't think you took Social Sciences in high school... You'd at least know what the scientific method is..." I don't think it's fair for you to call people crazy just because you disagree with their beliefs when they aren't hurting anyone or anything. This does apply for the people who are doing wrong of course. I know what the scientific method is, again I'm looking at everything from a pure objective point of view.

"Ancient history does not deal in proofs or disproof's but in evidence—usually very scarce evidence." Well, that's what I was implying, thanks. "I have no idea whatsoever how that could be similar to the scientific method" I'm saying that each are a system through which people see things as certain. That's all I'm saying.

"which Viviane has been reasonably rejecting as well." These are just my ideas, you don't have to reject them as if I'm saying that they are the truth.

"I'm going to go even further and say that... humans are not unique at all. We are different from animals in the degree to which we can use rational thought etc. However, that does not make us unique. We are different because of evolution. Evolution can favor animals as much as it did favor our kind. What is so unique about that?" If you don't believe that we are unique then that's cool. I however believe all species are unique in there own way. Just my opinion.

looter

Thank you, sparky1. I'll check into that! But I've never been good at that naturally so while it may be possible to improve slightly, it will not be the level that most people acquire.

Landy

...it will not be the level that most people acquire

You keep using big words that don't quite fit what you're trying to say or what you think they mean. Stop it. It's like you eaten a dictionary and don't quite know how to digest it. It's taking away from what you're trying to say.

God is Real in Principle

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