God is Real in Principle

by looter 251 Replies latest jw friends

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  looter

  Yes. Every Christian believes that their God is the image of righteousness. But what I'm saying is that everyone has their own image of morality even if it rejects the belief in God. Not everyone is completely rational because we're not robots or machines. Just like we believe in logical thinking, there is a certain conception that we submit ourselves to since we are only human beings. Absolute and objective morality are very similar because in both, each party assesses candor to what they believe to be true based on their own personal perspective. It's just that one appoints a supreme deity and the other doesn't.

  You say that you aren't trying to find any moral standard yet you say, "That means that good and bad are assessed against the consequences for the well-being of conscious creatures. So there are real moral truths.", which means that you feel you have found an ideal moral truth in your eyes. There is hardly a difference in that and absolute morality.
  
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  OUTLAW

  Why don't you stick to colouring in goofy cartoons of the governing body and collecting "likes"? Adults are trying to have an interesting conversation.....cofty

  Your the guy who repeatedly claims he doesn`t insult people..We see those posts from you a lot..
  

  You pretty much prove yourself a liar at every opportunity..Do you really think nobody notices?..

  By the way..

  If you hadn`t personally attacked me,I wouldn`t have bothered with you..But..

  I really dislike your endless bullying of anyone who doesn`t agree with you..

  You should have left that at the Kingdom Hall..

  Where "You Used To Be Important"..
  

  
  
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  looter

  In reply to redvip2000, It's never been easy for me to convey what I think but that was my fault for not writing that sentence right. What I was said was how cofty said all Christians believe in Jesus and I disagreed with him. As for the bible, your position on this is respected but Christians see value in it and there really isn't anything wrong with that unless they are trying to murder folks and or doing terrible acts.
  
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  cofty

  you feel you have found an ideal moral truth in your eyes. There is hardly a difference in that and absolute morality.

  They could not be any different. They are exact opposites.

  Theists assert that things are right or wrong based on the edicts of an imaginary lawgiver. This capricious appeal to absolute morality has proven to be unfit for purpose. It leads to ethical decisions that are demonstrably harmful but unavoidable.

  Rational people ponder what the effects will be on the well-being of conscious creatures and try to make ethical decisions that minimises harm.

  Neither of these two ethical systems are the same thing as relative morality. Personal preferences, whims and cultural norms are not a reliable basis for ethics.

  Of course in reality christians don't actually get their ethics from some absolute external standard. They mostly reason on consequences just like non-believers but they then go back and superimpose god onto decisions they have already made. God is the ultimate sockpuppet.
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  looter

  Outlaw, there's usually two primary positions that most occupy. That is pretty reasonable as most people fall on either side and a good volume for the edge. We have to remember that it takes two to argue and I've seem countless scrimmages of this not just on here, but everywhere. We do not have the supernatural ability to look into someone and see which of these skeptics they are. We must use discernment by looking at what they say and how they say it. If someone starts off with an angry ad hominem attack and inherently refuses everything some person say as the babbling of idiots and morons, then that person has revealed themselves.
  
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  cofty

  Looter please ignore Outlaw's childish insults, your topic is more interesting.
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  aboveusonlysky

  Hey, don't pick on outlaw! I find his cartoons both funny and educational, and anyone who says otherwise can meet me behind the bike sheds after school and get their ass handed to them.
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  looter

  A Christian believer can have all the virtuous codes that a nonbeliever has, cofty. Of course this doesn't include all the horrific acts that people claim is justified by God. What I'm trying to say is that two people that have very similar values and morals but have a different method or approach to reach those same standards. It isn't gentle to include all Christians in a certain like when there are some that have completely rational values such as yourself.

  But certain believers will always spurn an atheist's way of thinking not because they are childish but because the sole reason why they have good standards is perhaps because of a God they trust. There has been some evidence that believing in God can help block anxiety and minimize stress in certain people. I personally don't like that because they only believe in God because of that not because of genuine certainty. That's unfortunate for them but that's how their brain is wired.

  "Of course in reality christians don't actually get their ethics from some absolute external standard. They mostly reason on consequences just like non-believers but they then go back and superimpose god onto decisions they have already made. God is the ultimate sockpuppet." Not all. Most Christians do not believe God to be false. There are some that use him for their diversion, but we're not talking about those. We're talking about the high-minded. The ones that actually know it's wrong to murder. The biggest point I'm trying to make though is that just like believers believe there is a God and he is the splitting image of right and wrong, atheists to believe in a complimentary morality even if it's highly disputable between each perspective. The two sides just have an enormous distinction in assumption.
  
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  KateWild

  And I wouldn't say it's childish to believe that so much as it's intuitive to believe or wonder that something else is out there because everyone has their own view as you do yours.- looter

  I would agree with you looter, and I also think you are very mature for 18 and you have great literacy skills.

  Lol I posted this at about 9pm UK time. Thought it didn't work.

  Your the guy who repeatedly claims he doesn`t insult people..We see those posts from you a lot. - outlaw

  He just insults their ideas outlaw, he not insulting them. Don't you know the difference after 7 years of it?

  looter, you are doing really well, you don't have to answer Cofty's questions if you don't feel like it. I think he has kids your age.
  
  

  Your not a WBT$/JW Elder Anymore..- outlaw

  Fabulous, just great. Love you Outlaw
  
  
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  OUTLAW

  Looter please ignore Outlaw's childish insults, your topic is more interesting......cofty

  You still think you can..

  To tell people what to do..What to think..Dismiss people who displease you..
  

  Behave in a condescending manner,so people know how important you are..
  

  That BS doesn`t Translate into the Real World
  

  Your not a WBT$/JW Elder Anymore..

  ....................................................
  

  Your a Slow Learner..