Hey Outlaw how about you not respond to any of my statements anymore. i can go out and find my own stupid memes and just show it to myself since that is all you do anyways, you don't have anything to contribute but memes. I am the dumb one for actually saying something so your just a dumb mute because you won't even talk.
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks 347 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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dubstepped
Still avoiding FastJehu's posts there eh? And holding out Jesus as someone that shunned is just stunning. Your twisting knows no bounds.
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Richard Oliver
How did Jesus not shun Judas dubstepped?
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dubstepped
Why are you changing the subject and avoiding FastJehu's posts? -
OUTLAW
I am the dumb one for actually saying something so your just a dumb mute because you won't even talk.....Richard Oliver
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Richard Oliver
Wow FastJehu, you are just like orphan crow in just taking a small fraction of a statement and make it apply to what you want it to apply too. Here is the full statement of that paragraph.
Immediately Judas left the group. A comparison of Matthew 26:20-29 with John 13:21-30indicates that he departed before Jesus instituted the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal. Luke’s presentation of this incident evidently is not in strict chronological order, for Judas had definitely left by the time Christ commended the group for having stuck with him; that would not fit Judas, nor would he have been taken into the “covenant . . . for a kingdom.”
Also notice that in the parallel acocunt in John it says:
After saying these things, Jesus became troubled in spirit, and he bore witness, saying: “Most truly I say to you, one of you will betray me.”+22 The disciples began to look at one another, being at a loss as to which one he was talking about.+ 23 One of the disciples, the one whom Jesus loved,+ was reclining close to* Jesus. 24 Therefore, Simon Peter nodded to this one and said to him: “Tell us whom he is talking about.” 25 So the latter leaned back on the chest of Jesus and said to him: “Lord, who is it?”+26 Jesus answered: “It is the one to whom I will give the piece of bread that I dip.”+ So after dipping the bread, he took it and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Is·carʹi·ot. 27 After Judas took the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him.+ So Jesus said to him: “What you are doing, do it more quickly.” 28 However, none of those reclining at the table knew why he said this to him. 29 Some, in fact, were thinking that since Judas was holding the money box,+ Jesus was telling him, “Buy what we need for the festival,” or that he should give something to the poor. 30 So after he received the piece of bread, he went out immediately. And it was night.+
1 Corinthians 9:11
NIV:
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
NLT:
I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such people.
ESV:But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
NASB:
But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.
Is that enough translations and versions or would you like more.
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LoveUniHateExams
Where in your question did you state that of child abuse victims - this entire thread is about ARC Case Study number 54. Shunning featured in that testimony.
My point was that Jesus had a bloody good reason to stop associating with Judas. Where's the good reason for JWs to shun disassociated ones, especially if those disassociated ones are the victims of child abuse?
those that have gone through a traumatic situation does not get a pass for everything else that they do in their life - ok.
Look at how the law views veterans who have post-traumatic stress disorder and then commit a crime - dodgy comparison, and you probably know it.
Disassociating oneself from Watchtower can't, in all seriousness, be compared to committing a crime.
And, please, read up on the case of Ray Franz ...
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Richard Oliver
If you meant shunning based exclusively on those who have been victims of child abuse then first you should have said it. We just went through a whole discussion with many people that just because child pornography is put into a second document as the first, saying it is a crime, that is not a valid way to read it, that the meaning is clear. Second, if you are basing it exclusively on those of child abuse then you can't use ray Franz as your example since his is not an equated example. -
LoveUniHateExams
I only mentioned Ray Franz because you earlier said that you hadn't heard of any examples of JWs getting DF'd for talking to DF'd or disassociated people.
Whatever, the following gets to the heart of the matter and needs an answer, so I'll post it again:
My point was that Jesus had a bloody good reason to stop associating with Judas. Where's the good reason for JWs to shun disassociated ones, especially if those disassociated ones are the victims of child abuse?
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Richard Oliver
Thank you orphan crow for that wonderful back and forth. Now where in the letter to the body of elders does it say you will contact the service department first? Or does it state that the legal department will be contacted first to give legal advice based on the law. That advice would be dependent on applicable laws of the jurisdiction in which the offense took place. Following legal advice the caller would be transfered to the service department to answer any spiritual or congregational issues. So again this is a two step call, first legal advice to ensure all laws are followed then legal advice.