ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks 347 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Richard Oliver

  And JWs feel that their reasons are good as well to shun. You obviously believe that there are some legitimate reasons to shun someone, such as them being a murderer or a child molester. Now it comes down to what those reasons are.

  Also you just have the account that Ray Franz says was the reason for him being DF, that could be the reason and it may not be. You don't know the true reason nor do I. That is the problem with anecdotical evidence, it is just taking someone's word for it. That is why I qualified my statement by saying that my experience is this, it may not be everyone's experience but that is my experience. My experience is true for me but not for everyone.
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  Richard Oliver

  And btw the reason for the same posts is that the site delayed the posts and it kept on repeating the same post.
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  dubstepped

  What the fuck are you babbling on about Richard? Your scriptures prove that Jesus didn't shun. Nowhere did he refuse to talk to him. He knew what had to go down and let Judas go do it. You must be a yoga instructor with all of the stretching that you do.

  As to the scripture in Corinthians, it again doesn't say what you think it does. It say not to associate with anyone calling himself a brother, but what if they no longer do? This was a huge point to me when I was waking up. I shunned my brother for over a decade before I realized that he was being perpetually punished for one act over a decade ago, and was now leading a good life. Why would I need to keep shunning him?

  You brought up the example of how someone shouldn't be absolved of the consequences of their crime You love those legal comparisons. But we don't punish people forever for most crimes. Is a person that is drunk today forever a drunk? Is a fornicator today forever a fornicator? Why does Jehovah remove your errors as far off as the sunrise from the sunset but your cult keeps account forever?

  I don't know why any of us bothers. There is none so blind as he who shall not see. You actually think you made a quality response to FastJehu.

  In the end, this whole argument over what to do with child sexual abuse is stupid. No religion has any place sticking their nose in criminal matters. Elders should bow out as soon as the subject comes up but they can't because they are so full of themselves, like the cult they serve, that they actually feel justified in investigating the claims. That is the height of delusion. They are no more qualified to be judges than anyone. My dad was one of those elders, a know it all with no education, no emotional intelligence, who drove his own kids to literally hate him. Your cult is overstepping and that's all that matters.
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  Richard Oliver

  You talk about that one cannot say just because the a person who has been abused or has gone through a tramatic event is still convicted and punish for a crime you cannot equate that to a sin or shunning someone.

  According to the VA PTSD for veterans can lead to the following family issues:

  Male Veterans with PTSD are more likely to report marital or relationship problems, higher levels of parenting problems, and generally poorer family adjustment than Veterans without PTSD. (2,6,7) Research has shown that Veterans with PTSD are less self-disclosing and expressive with their partners than Veterans without PTSD. (8) PTSD Veterans and their wives have also reported a greater sense of anxiety around intimacy. (7) Sexual dysfunction also tends to be higher in combat Veterans with PTSD than in Veterans without PTSD. (9) It has been posited that diminished sexual interest contributes to decreased couple satisfaction and adjustment. (10)

  
  

  So should these indviduals get a pass for everything because they have experienced negative effects, even though they aren't committing crimes. Should there marriage mates have to suffer through all the ordeals if they aren't strong enough themselves to deal with what is happening. Should children be required to suffer through a parent's alcholism or other negative effects from that disorder just because it isn't technically classified as abuse. The list goes on and on. Should an employeer have to suffer through a subpar employee because of the event.

  Yes, victims of child abuse do suffer for a life time and may never recover from that experience. But that does not negate completely how society expects them to act in general, they are still required to meet normal social contracts with general society.
  
  
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  Richard Oliver

  So Dubstepped:

  You are saying that it is wrong for someone who is a fornicator which would include adulterer to be considered that forever. So if you cheat on your wife, she must forgive you and not divorce you for that, because you only cheated on her once so you are not an adulterer forever just for that single time.
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  Richard Oliver

  And dubstepped the rest of that scripture from the NIV reads:

  9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sisterc but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

  12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”d

  In verse 13 it says expel those wicked person from among you. It also says that you can't judge those that aren't amongst you. So yes the congregation has a responsibility to expel those that are within the congregation that doesn't live by their standard. I have been expelled, I don't like it but I have accepted it.
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  Richard Oliver

  Also Dubstepped:

  Does "There is none so blind as he who shall not see." apply to you because you were one of the people who claimed that Watchtower does not consider child pornoraphy as child abuse even though it is proven in their own policy that they do consider it as child abuse. Will you admit that you are wrong.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  And JWs feel that their reasons are good as well to shun - what good reasons are there to shun disassociated people, especially if they are victims of child abuse?

  Again, Where's the good reason for JWs to shun disassociated ones, especially if those disassociated ones are the victims of child abuse?

  I'm becoming like you, Richard. I'm repeating what I already posted over and over again.
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  Richard Oliver

  Because they have either committed a subsequent sin that would require disfellowshipping or they have chosen to disassociate themselves. They are treating everyone the same when it comes to disassociation. NO ANSWER EVER WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU ACCEPT.
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  OUTLAW

  And btw the reason for the same posts is that the site delayed the posts and it kept on repeating the same post....RO

  That's not how things work..

  Try..
  

  You were impatient with how long it was taking to show your post..

  So you kept hitting the "Post Reply" button..

  Next time..
  

  Just wait until your post shows up, as posted..