by barry 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
John Lennon said:
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still f**king peasants as far as I can see....
It's possible, no; more like probable; that the book that so many people hinge all their faith on, the Bible, is just a collection of stories, myths, dreams and fairy tales. Nothing's worth all this debate on religion if all you're going to use as proof is this ancient collection of writings.
This is extremely interesting. Apparently they discovered that the brain has a good chance of using Quantum mathematics to derive some informations. If this is true it throws my deterministic reality out the window. This definitely pleases me greatly and I have a newfound hope. Thanks for pointing out the probablistics in nature and special thanks to google for your nice search engine. I definitely am less depressed about life now.
Eugene, are you trying to use "true science" to support the bible? Is there any "true science" that you don't use? You know what I'm talking about, yes the "E" word, do you try to assimilate evolution and creation? Also, I'm wondering how you use the scientific method to prove God exists? The point i'm making is that it's not right to use the term "true science" and equate beliefs with scientific theory. Either something is scientifically true or it is a belief. For example, you will never be able to use science to prove that the bible is inspired of god. How would you state the hypothisis? I'm not agreeing with Oracroth on his statement, but your statements are just as absurd. And by the way, what is your reference for the statement "quantum theory validates the Biblical view of physics."
i misspelled hypothesis, sorry to everyone.
Eugene, I believe the following statement is a violation of the terms of use:
"You don't know a thing about the known laws of the universe."
Breathe into a paper bag for a while and calm down. You must admit, he's probably got local gravitation handled at the very least (injects levity).
No, not local gravitation, but I do possess an understanding of Biology 101 that easily provides enough information to realize that using the bible as a source to prove anything, is dumb. Making a statement of something scientific and then quoting five scriptures from the bible creates an imaginary corralation between the two. It is a technique frequently used by "believers" and the WTBTS as well. In the end, the statement itself is essentially non-scientific and the argument is invalid.
That may be so about quoting the scriptures, but it's sort of a prerequisite to feel that the bible is a truthful document in order to beleive in a god talked about within it. So is it uncanny for someone to quote science and then the bible in the same idea? I don't think so. If someone rejects the teachings of the bible, why are you talking about religeon base upon it to begin with?
I agree with your entire statement. But in response to the question, "is it uncanny for someone to quote science and then the bible in the same idea?" I'm not saying it is uncanny, I am saying that it is irrational and non-scientific.
I'd like to read more on this quantum theory. I really hate the concept that the state of anything at a certain point can be exactly the same given the same origins. Then I can get out of this perpetual depressive state.
Oracroth,
Professor Stephen Hawking has a nice lecture online where he discusses the not too ancient deterministic view of physics and modern quantum theory. See
Note especially this statement by Hawking:
So God does play dice with the universe. All the evidence points to him being an inveterate gambler, who throws the dice on every possible occasion.
Hawking isn't saying that he believes in God. He is only building on Albert Einstein famous objection to quantum physics: "Gott wurfelt nicht!" (God does not play dice!) All respected physicists today agree that Einstein was being extremely closed-minded and, if using his philosophical language, overwhelmingly agree that God plays dice with light and matter. The only insight that I'm adding to the debate is based on an obvious interpretation of Biblical revelation. I like to summarize it by saying, God not only plays dice with the universe, ?He cheats.
Eugene Shubert
Eugene, read this quote: "To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot." Einstein Scientific knowledge still hasn't set foot in your "obvious interpretation of Biblical revelation." Also, Stephen Hawking argued that there is 'no place for a creator', that God does not exist. In his quantum cosmology "there would be no singularities at which the laws of science broke down and no edge of space-time at which one would have to appeal to God or some new law to set the boundary conditions for space-time . . . The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE . . . What place, then, for a creator?" Again, you're juxtaposing scientific language with belief, again, argument invalid. By saying that "All respected physicists today agree that Einstein was being extremely closed-minded and, if using his philosophical language, overwhelmingly agree that God plays dice with light and matter", you're misleading people into thinking essentially that, "all respected physicists...overwhelmingly agree that god plays dice with light and matter" or that god exists. Your statement would have been correct if you stopped at the word minded. I realize the qualifier "philosophical language" is inserted, but that doesn't change the intended impression that your statement gives to others.
