BTW, it is possible to tell an elder off respectfully
Yes, but there's no fun in that
Did You Ever Tell An Elder Off??? How Did It Feel???
by minimus 81 Replies latest jw friends
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DakotaRed
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blondie
DR, I find it better not to cloud the issue with extraneous words such as insults or swear words when I am trying to share a point with anyone, elder or not. If they are not getting the point or are being disrespectful with me, I just walk away. Being "disrespectful" undercuts any point you are trying to make. Just my opinion.
Blondie
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CoonDawg
I understand what you are saying. Why demean yourself? It's as the bible puts it about kindness to your enemies. It is like heaping coals upon their heads.
I lived next door to the PO in our congregation. At the time, my wife (now ex-wife) was freakin' out and in a nut house. She was so distressed because she and another elder were engaging in a little hanky panky and I found out. Anyhow, I had a house, a job, two kids (one still not walking) and a nutty wife who "tried to kill herself". This PO took the opportunity to start bitching about the clutter in my carport. My home was next door to his, and the KH was on the other side of his house. He made the ususal arguments about it being a "bad witness" etc.
I came Un-freakin' glued! I told him that he was overstepping his bounds. This was not a KH matter, but a matter between neighbors. He was being abusive and insensitive to approach me about it right then. I then told him that I would treat hiim as I would any other neighbor and that if it bothered him so bad, he could clean it up and reorganize it, seeing as I had all these other responsibilities to look after and since he was an elder who was supposed to "look after the flock" that I was a part of rather than kicking us around.
He realized that he would have 3 options...1) treat this as a cong. matter and thereby be obligated to assist me 2) treat this as a matter between neighbors and call the law on me (it wasn't really THAT bad) or 3) shut his pie hole and leave me alone.
He chose option # 3, apologized and I never heard anymore about it.
Yep, it felt very good.
I was not disrespecfull, just told him the facts.
Ern
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iiz2cool
Just as anyone living in the USA is under the authority of the US government whether such individual recognizes us gov authority or not, so too every jw is under the authority of the elders having jurisdiction over them whether thr jw recoghnizes it or not.
You are mistaken. Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT a government, therefore your reasoning is flawed. They have no authority whatsoever other than that which the individual chooses to give them. I choose to give them none, and that is my right under the constitution of my country.
When I was baptised in 1984 the questions asked prior to the baptism did not state anything about some "organisation". That change came later, when they presumptuously discarded "holy spirit" in favour of "spirit directed organisation". I was never bound by this because I never agreed to it. It is not their place to unilaterally change agreements or vows after the fact.
I did not consider myself subject to the rules in some secret elders manual that they are too cowardly to publish for all members to read. I wonder how many people would ever get baptised in the first place if they were aware of it's contents?
Like it or not, respect for an individual or position must be earned. All they earned from me was contempt. I am not one to blindly obey elders simply because some worthless, abusive, destructive cult tells me to.
And by the way, they're not shunning me; I'm shunning them. I don't associate with people who protect child molesters.
Walter
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Free in Jesus
I've been doing this silently. And I just love that. I mean, they've been trying to contact me by phone, and yet they don't get a word from me. They must be thinking I've gone bananas. You know, I haven't come up for the meetings for a couple of months. And I won't anymore. No more of that!!! Sweet, silent vengeance. Ha, ha, ha ...
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fearnotruth22
Walter you are ignoring the facts and talking a lot of nonsense. Your thinking is erroneous. Elders do have authority over the jws, and you know it.
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little witch
Fearnotruth,
What Walter said. Plus my two.
You are comparing apples to oranges. The Government is representing ME. An elder represents the business interests of the watchtower CORPORATION.
I as a citizen am allowed to vote. I am allowed to decide who gets my respect. I am allowed freedom of speech, religion, and protest .
Jehovahs Witnesses are allowed non of these. They have no choice but to tell an elder off. There is no way to "respectfully voice your opinion", opinion is not allowed!!!!!
Welcome to the board, but for petes sake, use your noodle, would you?
Now, Minimus.
Good question (as usual)No, I have never told one off. What I did was worse, I told them very politely that they had no authority over me what so ever, and that I found them foolish and uneducated. LOL. Boy did that leave them speechless. (I was 12).
I would also tell them that they should take their complaints to my Dad (who was not a witness, in fact they were petrified of him) They just let me alone after that, which suited me well.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
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iiz2cool
Walter you are ignoring the facts and talking a lot of nonsense. Your thinking is erroneous. Elders do have authority over the jws, and you know it.
What facts are you talking about? I haven't seen you present any. Nor have you pointed out which of my statements you perceive to be "nonsense". Your comparing Jehovahs Witnesses to a government is utterly stupid. Perhaps you should consult a dictionary and learn the difference between a religion and a government. re·li·gion (r
n.- Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
- A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
- The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
- A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
- A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
gov·ern·ment (g
n.- The act or process of governing, especially the control and administration of public policy in a political unit.
- The office, function, or authority of a governing individual or body.
- Exercise of authority in a political unit; rule.
- The agency or apparatus through which a governing individual or body functions and exercises authority.
- A governing body or organization, as:
- The ruling political party or coalition of political parties in a parliamentary system.
- The cabinet in a parliamentary system.
- The persons who make up a governing body.
- A system or policy by which a political unit is governed.
- Administration or management of an organization, business, or institution.
- Political science.
- Grammar. The influence of a word over the morphological inflection of another word in a phrase or sentence.
I'll repeat myself. In our personal lives, they have no authority whatsoever other than that which people choose to give them. Elders tried to impose all sorts of "rules" on me. They counselled me to shave off my moustache, part my hair differently, stop biting my nails, get rid of my two door vehicle, stop going to school when an injury necesitated a career change, and many other foolish and trivial things. My response was to hold out a bible to them and say, "Either show me from here, or shut up." They always shut up. Why? Because I forced them to realize they had no authority to counsel me on these matters. And no, I did not receive any censure for my kind, gentle, respectful reminder of their limits on authority.
Additionally, when I kicked the book studys out on their asses from both my home and my mother's, they saw very quickly who was in authority.
Walter
Edited to add: Are you counting your time here? Don't you know the elders have the authority to disfellowship you for coming here and talking to us?
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copsec
An elder called me at work to tell me that a judicial committee had been called together for me to meet with to discuss the fact that I left my husband (who had several affairs while we were married and were JWS) I told him that I did not appreciate him calling me at work, that I was NOT going to meet with them cause one other time I met with elders they asked me sexually explicit questions and I felt that they did that so they could jerk off when they got home and that he could kiss mt ass. He said, "Well, if your not there, you know what's gonna happen." I said, (Yes, I'll be disfellowshipped. I don't care, do it and stay the hell away from me!"
It felt FANTASTIC!
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fearnotruth22
A dim wit cannot see things clearly. My comparison of us gov over individuals in the USA to elders having authority over jws is not to equate secular authority with religious or parental or even the authority that an employer has over his laborres, but to show that both the us gov and the elders have and excercize authority over indivuduals even if they refuse to subject themselves to their jurisdiction. For example: if you don't show up when you are summoned to court, action is taken against you. If you are found guilty of homsexuality in a judicial hearing whether you show up or not, the elders have the power to kick you out of the cong whether you like it or not, and that sir is proof that the elders HAVE authority over jws whether they recognize it or not. You can continue to believe in your nonsense.But as I stated previously, the rspect one shows to someone in a position of authority is not for the sdake of the individual in such a position even if that individul does not merit respect, even as Jesus did not tell satan off, but it is the proper and orderly thing to do , to respect anyone having authority. It is pointelss to try to explain something that is obvious, hence I will not comment to you anymore about this matter Walter. It is above your head and mental capacity to understand things that are common sense. I rest my case.