by Simon 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Interesting story. Personally, the lack of evidence for someone supposedly so important is a bit pathetic.
I remember a WTS that said "there is more evidence that Jesus lived than Julius Ceasar died in Rome". Notice the twist - of course there is plenty of evidence that Julius Ceasar lived, and lots of writings that he died in Rome. The oldest date of *anything* mentioning Jesus is around a 125AD.
Just one of the reasons I don't buy the whole "Jesus" story.
Um... isn't the heading a bit biased, Simon? There's nothing new about this ossuary being called fake. The only thing new in the article is that some scholars are still trying to slog it.
Frankly, I'm not at all surprised that there's little historical evidence of a working-class populist religious leader (if that's what he was) from Tiberius' time. Why should there be? Almost all our history from the time comes through Roman sources, who didn't give a damn about Jesus' movement as long as it was just another sect of Judaism.
That's a good point, Euphemism.
I think if there were artifacts under nearly every stone with reference to Jesus on them, there would be only scholars claiming that this was surely the best evidence that Jesus was simply a mythological figure, since it would be so unlikely to find very much written about a "a working-class populist religious leader " that Rome didn't give a damn about.
bebu
This thing has been demonstrated to be a fraud many times over. The home of the owner was raided they found his 'lab' and even the software that had catalogued the samples of texts(from real artifacts posted on line) from which the inscription was traced. BAR has taken a lot of heat for hasty early endorsement of this piece of crap without adequate review. This will not go away. Just like the medival Shroud of Turin, there will forever be believers that insist some time of Atheist plot has prevented the truth from coming out.
| O NLINE N EWS | July 22, 2003 |
J AMES O SSUARY O WNER U NDER A RREST
![[image]](http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/thumbnails/oded.gif)
Ossuary owner Oded Golan (AP) [LARGER IMAGE]
In March of this year, a court-ordered search warrant revealed a storage space rented by Golan in a Tel Aviv suburb that contained forged ancient seals and inscriptions in various stages of production, engraving tools, and labeled bags of soil from excavations sites around the country.--K RISTIN M. R OMEY
Here is an interesting list from atheist.org.
They Should Have Noticed
John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence (The Truth Seeker Company, NY, no date, pp. 24-25), lists the following writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus is supposed to have lived:
Josephus, Philo-Judæus, Seneca, Pliny Elder, Arrian
Petronius, Dion Pruseus, Paterculus, Suetonius,Juvenal
Martial, Persius, Plutarch, Pliny Younger,Tacitus
Justus of Tiberius, Apollonius, Quintilian, Lucanus
Epictetus, Hermogones Silius Italicus, Statius, Ptolemy
Appian, Phlegon, Phædrus, Valerius Maximus, Lucian
Pausanias, Florus Lucius, Quintius Curtius, Aulus Gellius
Dio Chrysostom, Columella, Valerius Flaccus, Damis
Favorinus, Lysias, Pomponius Mela, Appion of Alexandria, and
Theon of Smyrna
According to Remsburg, "Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ." Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles - increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity.
I wonder exactly why there's no date on that book, greatteacher? Because I don't think that the idea that the references in Josephus are forged represents current scholarship.
Neither the ossuary nor shroud of Turin are as pivotal in the debate as people on either side believe.
(Perhaps, I should just say that I do not personally think much about either of these.)
bebu
Euphemism,
Your implication that Josephus' writings are not forged is correct (thanks for the many references you provided) and jesus did exist. And your response to the other 20 or so writers of that time period was convincing. Jesus did exist.
Bebu, Thanks for your opinion!
opinions aside, current scholarship is split along religious lines about the one Josephus quote but nearly unanimous about the other as a fraud. An great teacher, was that sacasm?
