What to Do....Please Help. Awakening JW for a very long time

by CovertsadJW 57 Replies latest social family

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    I have no magic words but have read this with interest. I'm so sorry man, you're caught between a rock and a ticking time bomb of a wife, it seems.

    I can only say what I would do. There's no right or wrong here, just different ways to address the situation and only you know what that truly is.

    I would have to take a very firm stand for what is right. It's just the only way I work. But you're likely not that guy or you would have taken a stand against the verbal abuse long ago. It may not be in you. We're all wired differently. It's okay.

    You have to find your voice somewhere in here. Only you can find it and figure out exactly what that looks like.

    I'd encourage you to go to a therapist to have someone on your side. Maybe even get her to join you, if just once, to have someone there when you tell her what's up. It might create a safe space for that.

    I feel for you. You're up against pure ego. You can't defeat ego, you have to disarm it, and that's very difficult. She over identifies with her thoughts, her feelings, her cult beliefs, etc. They are who she is, in her eyes. So any questioning of that is taken as a personal and direct attack on her.

    Keep posting. Keep reaching out. You likely need to talk this stuff through. Find someone locally to get in your corner too. Find your voice not just for you, but for your kids. You have to do it for yourself first though. When an airplane is crashing you put the oxygen mask on yourself first. You can't help others, even your kids, from a weak state. It's time to build up you for YOU. Do you man. You have to if you're going to have a chance to put that mask on your kids.

  • CovertsadJW
    CovertsadJW

    Wow dubstepped,

    Very welll said and your insight is spot on, I said this earlier -I never set up proper boundaries in our realarionship- I do stand up but not strong enough and not early enough in our relationship. Thanks for saying it’s okay - that means allot-. Yes any and all criticism is taken very personal; over the top and her critical nature is severe. She is smart , a very hard worker , but she is so hard on herself in everything- way over the top. She has lots of good qualities and I do not want to “ demean “ her , but that does not usurp her critical and demeaning nature. I’ve come to realize that if any person is constantly critical of themselves , people around them , the way people do things , the way they dress , what they drive , etc - that influence permeates the household and makes for a negative approach to life- I see it in our kids now - self doubt, anger, poor self esteem, etc. I really believe that a combination of being raised by a very strict mom, being a JW from birth with a personality that leans heavily towards negativity and then add the FOG, plus being married to a guy who does not believe and that’s a tough pill for a perfectionist to swallow. Camparisons are constant, etc. I want to live in a warm and kind household that has unconditional love , not perfect , just one that can raise ( the best we can ) good kids who are confident , have a good outlook in life , who value critical thinking and education. Life’s difficulties can be handled with the propel tools and you ( we, us ) do not have to hide or run away from problems - that’s what the JWs teach. That’s great short term but the long term consequences are devastating.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    Yep, you said it, she's a petfectionist. I'm a recovering perfectionist myself. She likely hates herself and is projecting that outward. She's not happy. The cult is one of perfectionism and subsequent control.

    I don't know how to make her want to be happy. I wanted to be. There are cognitive distortions with perfectionism that are easy to point out, but a person has to want to be happy more than they want to feed their ego. There has to be humility at some point.

    A book that helped me was "Happier" by Tal Ben-Shahar. It is about perfectionism and control.

    I think the only chance you have with her is to get her to acknowledge her unhappiness and to get her help on a human level. Once she's a healthier human other dominoes can fall. At least that was my awakening process. I was deeply unhappy and searching for happiness. I found emotional health and then I could see how toxic the cult was.

  • CovertsadJW
    CovertsadJW

    Do you think the “ cult was making you unhappy “ ? I ask because that all she talks about - how we are not doing enough, late for meetings , don’t have a family bible study , etc , etc. She was off and mad about something and I said “ I am very happy internally “ and I don’t need others approval. Wow that went over well , happiness is based on an internal locus and not and external locus for sure - people are chasing everything to be happy to no avail. The hardest part is watching affect me and the kids fairly significantly and it’s getting worse. She cannot and will not verbalize her “ behavior “ as inappropriate, has never said sorry. It’s a hard position to be in - religion issues and wife issues all tied up in one. She is too proud to go to therapy , see faults in herself , but so quick to blame me for her unhappiness all the time. Am I crazy ? Knowing the truth is a “ lie “ and my wife will not bend , look at facts , communicate without anger and cutting remarks says much. I am serious when I I have said ....is she trying to destroy our relationship and blame me or is she that blind to her behavior that she thinks she is doing good. She has really pushed me away , but now I look like “ a spiritually weak one “ when in fact that’s not true. I won’t say what I do for a living but when people ask me “ how can I be successful in this job .” I always say be humble so you can learn from others - same applies to waking up from the truth. You have to be very humble to wake up, you have to want truth and facts as it’s a very very painful process based on so many factors. Not one person says “ give me all of this pain “ Man I have nothing better to do than be a jerk , trash my religion, cause myself psychological harm , and maybe loose my family and friends for leaving - what craziness. But the facts are the facts

  • CovertsadJW
    CovertsadJW

    Thanks ,

    I will be purchasing that book and read it myself.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    I'm at work and will write more later, but absolutely the pressures of the cult made me unhappy. I ended up suicidal. That was 2008. I disassociated in 2015.

  • CovertsadJW
    CovertsadJW

    Thank you and I look forward to your input as I am having some “ self harm” thoughts at times - no where near that point - but hearing from you later would help - have a good day at work ...I’m folding laundry , time to pick up the kids at school

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    Sent you a private message. Still working.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped
    happiness is based on an internal locus and not and external locus for sure - people are chasing everything to be happy to no avail.

    Your are right, and JWs are all about the external. They put off true happiness until the new system. They pick and choose negative things in the world to create unhappiness among member, again external things. They don't teach happiness as an inside game, but rather something to be gained by doing the will of the cult at best. There is where the happiness is supposed to lie, but it never comes.

    She is too proud to go to therapy , see faults in herself , but so quick to blame me for her unhappiness all the time.

    When I talked about ego earlier, I talked about it in the sense of identity more than of pride. "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle was really good in helping me to address those issues in myself, just in case you're interested. I don't honestly think that pride is the issue as much as identity. Blame is a way to protect the ego, the identity. You are likely right in the humility would help her, but she has put on this religion as her entire identity and probably doesn't know who she is without it. It might be more fear that prevents her from looking at herself with humility than pride.

    is she trying to destroy our relationship and blame me or is she that blind to her behavior that she thinks she is doing good.

    Be careful not to ascribe too much intent to all of this. She is hijacked by cult programming. She is not herself. The cult moralizes all behaviors but sometimes people behave automatically based on programming. My guess is that she is scared and uses all of those other things like yelling to distract herself from it. Now, whether or not she wakes up in time to save things is another question. I don't personally think many people are just bad people, they're usually hurt. Hurt people hurt people.

    You woke up on your time frame. She will have to do the same. For years someone probably could have shown you the truth about the truth and you wouldn't have listened. You have to be ready for it. That doesn't mean that you will still be around when and if she does wake up. Maybe she never will. She has a ton to lose if she does. That's terrifying. Some people are truly truth seekers like yourself. You put the truth first, even willing to lose everything for it. Not everyone is wired that way. For many it is more important to protect what they have and to maintain the comfort of the status quo.

    I know this is going to sound weird but I believe it to be right. Ego begets ego. If you go at her being defensive she will be put on the defensive too. I think you may have to win her over by apologizing for putting her in a strange position in the organization, but then letting her know kind of what you said above. You didn't go seeking this out. You wouldn't risk losing everything without good reason.

    I couldn't keep my mouth shut about the things I saw in the organization as I started to get healthier. My wife did not like it. She would let me vent but didn't like me doing it. She knew she couldn't stop me, lol. She also knew that I was a good person with a good heart and she trusted me. At one point I finally got her to open up to me. I set her at ease by letting her know that most everyone has some sort of doubts and that if she put hers out there nothing would change. After all, she still has the doubts she has, only now we could talk about it. If she didn't like it, I told her she could always pack up her doubts and put them away and tell me to do the same with mine. That conversation started so much for us. It took time to get her at ease enough to join me in that conversation though. I had to change my tune as well from ranting and upset to humble and sincere.

    I hope this helps some. I'm no therapist, just a jackass that grew up in a cult and read a lot of great books and listened to a lot of great podcasts to help readjust my thinking on life, to broaden my horizons, and to challenge my perspectives.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped
    I am having some “ self harm” thoughts at times

    People that do things like cutting are often doing it for control. They feel so out of control in their lives that they seek it in self harm. It is almost like a form of meditation. They lose themselves in the activity.

    You didn't elaborate much but I thought I'd throw that out there. You have to feel incredibly out of control with everything going on right now. It is overwhelming.

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