Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)
by JW Answers 89 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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JW Answers
Finkelstein - You obviously did not read or watched the video I have posted. At not one point did I ever say Jesus is the Father... I said he is Equal to the Father... please read the content of my posts before you make a fool of yourself with your assumptions.
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cofty
If Jesus is unequivocally God then why do bible writers speak about Jesus' God?
I didn't think you would need me to provide chapter and verse but maybe your bible knowledge isn't as good as you pretend. Here you go...
Romans 15:6, "that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Corinthians 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort."
Ephesians 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ."
1 Peter 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
Also, please describe and illustrate the trinity succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself or committing a heresy.
Thank you for your time.
You're welcome. You are not running away are you?
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stillin
It's all way too ridiculous to consider.
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Finkelstein
I said he is Equal to the Father...
and the holy spirit is also equal as well. ?
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Dunedain
This is like saying that Gandalf and Saruman are the same person. I mean come on guys, really?
You see Saruman was known as Saruman the white, but Gandalf was known as Gandalf the Grey. Saruman the White was the top of the Wizardly order, with white being purer and higher than Grey.
Now, i know there is some confusion, since Gandalf the Grey does eventually become Gandalf the White, but thats not till after Gandalf kills the Balrog at Kazad Dum.
So yes, we do have a Saruman the White, AND a Gandalf the White, but they cannot be the same person, as Gandalf was Gandalf the Grey BEFORE he became Gandalf the White. BTW, there is another Wizard named Radagast the Brown, but we wouldnt want to confuse things, so i will leave him out.
So guys, please dont get hung up on "specific words", and "phrases". This stuff is easy to see and clear as can be. The Father/Saruman the White, cannot be the Son/Gandalf the Grey/White, and leave the Holy Spirit/Radagast the Brown outta this, ok.
Simple enough.
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Steel
In between the old testament and new testament there is a 400 year period called the intertestamental period. The 400 years of silence.
During this period the rabbis were debating some of the weirdness happening in the old testament. We have an invisible god no one can see but for some reason people meet and talk with him. Sometimes god refers to himself in the plural. Sometimes lord refers to god in the second person. Sometimes god is one, sometimes he is more than a single being. Sometimes a figure called the angel of Lord or word of Lord speaks as god.
When you read the new testament and know your old testament it becomes pretty obvious who the authors think Jesus is. He is the visible image of the invisible god. Know one has seen god, Only the son etc etc.
How it all works ? Who knows. Bible isn't entirely clear but it is pretty on who the authors think Jesus is.
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cofty
Let me add another couple of verses.
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ - John 20:17
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. - Revelation 3:12
"that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." - Romans 15:6,
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort." - 2 Corinthians 1:3,
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ." - Ephesians 1:3,
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." - 1 Peter 1:3
Also, please describe and illustrate the trinity succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself or committing a heresy.
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cofty
it becomes pretty obvious who the authors think Jesus is - Steel
Paul, the author of Mark, the author of Mark, the authors of Matthew and Luke, and the author of the gospel of John all have different Christologies.
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Steel
The books of Luke, Mark and Matthew are called the synoptic gossips and don't really deal with larger issue of who Jesus was. It's not till the book of John and the writing of Paul you really understand the old testament backdrop of was Jesus was.
FFS cofy you sound exactly like a watchtower Muppet. Quoting things out of context, circular reasoning etc etc, not understanding old testament references. Go find your nearest hall and get back in the Borg.
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Vanderhoven7
The Trinity is an amazing theological constuct that is not nearly as developed in scripture as it is refracted in the mind of theologians... but sure helps to make sense of quite a number of New Testament passages that point to the deity of Jesus Christ and His entitlement to worship.
But the Trinity must be put in it's place. Many people believe the Trinity but have no relationship with Jesus. One can believe the Trinity without ever recognizing their spiritual poverty or their need of a Saviour.
Certainly believing that Jesus is God frees us to give Him equal honour to the Father in everything and that is a safe way to live and serve and commune with our Lord and Saviour.