JEHOVAH

by minimus 81 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Narkissos

  Many thanks Peacefulpete,

  Although the evidence for the name Yhwh in Ugarit is scanty (very odd syntax in KTU 1.1 IV.14 if this is the real meaning!), the Ugaritic texts do provide a very enlightening background. The figure of Asherah as "Mrs. Maingod" (be it Yhwh or Baal), though still challenged (by Lipinski for example), deserves to be known. I'd just insist that "borrowed from Ugarit" is too bold a shortcut, since the texts we were lucky enough to find there are just a chance sample of the general culture shared, with local variations, in all the "Canaanite" realm.

  I also fully agree with your reservations about the "Biblical" side of the picture. To most present scholars the great "Yhwh-Israel vs Baal-Canaan" scheme is a fictitious product of the "Deuteronomistic historiography" (extending to the so-called Exodus and Conquest).
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  peacefulpete

  The "Yhwh's Ashera" phrase has generated debate as to whether the Ashera was referring to the actual goddess or just the more generic sacred tree that the word came to signify in the monarchic period.. Either way it is counter to the image of YHWH we knew. I think the referece to Ashera as consort to YHWH is confirmed from more than this one source. Reasonably this was simply a holdover from the El assimilation and lasted only a short time. I know of no challenge to the YHWH reference in the Ugaritic texts, do you have a line on this? (I'm not even certain if this is the sole example) Something like 200 deities were found in the Ugarit materials.
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  czarofmischief

  I find it amusing that the JW's insist on praying using the name "Jehovah"...that God doesn't hear your prayers if you don't...I find that strange...you'd think an all powerful being would know when he wa being prayed to even if you called him Stanley.

  Sure. He Does. I pray to "Jehovah" but that's just my name for Him (and "Him" is just how I personalize the genderless entity). Maybe his name isn't important, but it helps me assign a personality to the deity. I really do think that He wants to be a person to us.

  I used to be an atheist, but gradually I needed to find an explanation for why I wanted to be a good person so badly - so I started praying again. I used the name Jehovah, because that was what I was used to. And I got answers. and my life has steadily improved.

  We could go around in circles all day on this topic; I just wanted to toss in my two cents.

  I think the important thing is the personal nature of the relationship. Maybe some kids CAN call their father by his first name. Maybe some kids call their father by a made up name that used to be viewed as the real name, but is kept out of affection. And maybe some kids just say father, or dad. I think God can work something out with you.

  CZAR
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  Narkissos

  Peacefulpete: as for the phrase "Yhwh and his Ashera" (found in Kuntillet 'Ajrud but also in Khirbet el-Qom), the main problem is the possessive pronoun which normally never occurs with a proper name ('asrtH, HIS Ashera). I personally don't buy into Lipinski's explanation (in fact reviving and old rabbinic tradition), that "ashera" is only an equivalent of "bamah", "high place (sanctuary) with trees". My provisional guess would be that in Hebrew use, "'ashera" became a kind of common noun meaning "consort goddess" (prior to the deuteronomistic meaning "sacred pole or tree"). But this idea should be given further testing.

  As for the phrase sm . bny . yw . ilt in Ugarit, I don't know of any scholarly challenge since I was not even conscious of it. My spontaneous (and perhaps mistaken) reaction is that "yw" would not be set between "bny" and "ilt" to mean "the name of the son of god, Yahweh". Moreover, it would be the first evidence I heard of for a northern form "Yw" aside from theophoric names. Maybe tomorrow I can find something about this in Paris: I'll let you know.

  Sorry for the technical hijacking of this thread. One conclusion we would certainly agree on is that, whatever the details, the function of the divine name Yhwh is only understandable from the ancient polytheistic viewpoint; in a monotheistic context it had to be given a farfetched "spiritual explanation" by mainstream theologians (Exodus 3), avoided by common people and magically used by esoterism.
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  peacefulpete

  Narkissos...Iv'e been googling around and have found some interesting stuff about the Yaw in the Ugarit text in question. It seems the name Yahweh itself maybe an artificial construct, or just a local varient of Yaw, yahoo,yehud or a half dozen other possibilities. Not just the pronounciation as was posted at this site before, but the identification. We have long recognized that Yahweh was addressed in numerous ways linked by theophanic traits and appearance in Hebrew names. Perhaps we can soon add more faces to Yhwh as our knowledge of near eastern mythgologies grows. It is probably not new to you as you have demonstrated a deeper understanding of the languages involved.
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  A Paduan

  Y H W H I Am Who Am
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  gumby

  I Am Who I Am

  And here I thought popeye coined that phrase

  Gumby
• 

  peacefulpete

  Paduan...The possibility exists and is reasonable, that all the Hebrew
  
  proposed etymologies are popular or priestly constructs
  
  for a name which may be so ancient that it's older than
  
  proto-Semitic: i.e. it may not be a "Hebrew" name at
  all.
• 

  BluesBrother

  I regret that I cannot be technical since my only knowledge of the subject has come from the WTS and is therefore known to everyone here.

  Shoshana , There was a fad in the 80's in the UK to put the Hebrew Tetragrammaton up in Kingdom Halls. I mean to paint it abobe the platform or have a carved plaque outside the hall. But the C/os started to spread the word that the Society was displeased with this and they had to come down. The thinking was that they were creating a talisman, rather than the meaning of the name

  Minimus, I quite agree that I dislike the corruption of this name into joke or slang derivitives . It still seems disrespectvul to our Father.

  I do not use it unless I am in conversation with my wife or family, who are so engrossed that the name flows in an and out of the conversations quite naturally.

  The name has been hi jacked by the dubs, thats why nobody else wants to use it. Talk about "Jehovah" and you must be one of them.

  Incidentally, my mother always said that one of the big things that convinced her of the "Truth" back in the 50's was their use of the name . After all"Does not the Bible say that God will take out from the nations a people for his name?"
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  Room 215

  Actually, their frequent and off-hand use of the name, tossing it around casually in conversation -- ``Jehovah this" and Jehovah that" -- has exactly the opposite effect JWs intend -- it cheapens rather than exalts it. To me, it's analagous to addressing my father by his first name instead of ``dad" or ``father"--- unthinkable to me when I was a child. Take note for example how frequently in the sacred text, the name is used with ennobling adjectives like ``Almighty God," ``Lord God," etc.