The "Critical Times" Con-Game - Dec. 15 Watchtower (page 3)

avengers

"For from these arise men who slowly work their way into households and lead as their
captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires."

Wow...thanks for the update. Very interesting that they have rejected their earlier claims, with nary a mention of how they misled thousands of people with seemingly scientific claims about increasing earthquakes. Leolaia

metatron

Does Revelation 11: 8 EVEN APPLY? How can anyone prove that John had any concept of ecology when he spoke

about ruining the earth? Wasn't he just refering to Noah's day wherein "the earth proved to be ruined" or as in the Tower of

Babel, "Now all the earth proved to be of one language and one set of words"? They had no industry in Bible times and little

concept of the earth as a planet so we have no proof of this "environmental" interpretation.

I always found this "ruining " of the earth prediction to be unsupported and thereby bogus.

metatron

Leolaia

I'm with you on Rev. having no notion of modern ecology. However I just want to point out the difference between kosmos "world" which refers most often to the world of men, human society, and nations collectively ("system of things" according to the WT) and ges "earth" which most commonly refers to the literal earth, land, etc. It is ges that occurs in Rev. 11:18. The participle diaphtheirontas may mean "destroying" or the less severe "corrupting"; the root phther- means "to defile" (1 Cor. 3:16 "If any man defiles the temple of God, God will defile him"; 1 Tim. 6:5 "constant friction between men of depraved mind"). The interpretation of "defiling" the physical land is thus what is meant. Of course, ecological pollution is not the only way the land may be defiled. A nation's collective sin and wickedness may "defile the land." And it is in this sense that the interpretation of Rev. 11:18 becomes clear, because this verse is none other than an allusion to Lev. 18:28. Here is the passage from vs. 15-28:

15 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.
16 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17 " 'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.
21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD .
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
24 " 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

And indeed, in the Septuagint, ges occurs in the Greek in this context. Also note the context of Rev. 11:18. The whole verse is: "The nations were seething with rage and now the time has come for your anger, and for the dead to be judged, and for your servants the prophets, for the saints and for all who worship you, small or great, to be rewarded. The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the earth." The italicized words are actually an allusion from Ps. 2:1, 5: "Why this uproar among the nations? Why this impotent muttering of pagans, kings on the earth rising in revolt, princes plotting against Yahweh and his Anointed....Then angrily he addresses them, in a rage he strikes them with panic." Rev. 11:18 is thus about judging the wicked rebelling against God, not about ecological pollution. What is more, compare Rev. 11:18 with 19:5:

Rev. 11:18
"The nations were seething with rage and now the time has come for your anger, and for the dead to be judged, and for your servants the prophets, for the saints and for all who worship you, small or great, to be rewarded. The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the earth."
Rev. 19:1-5
"I seemed to hear a huge crowd in heaven, singing, 'Alleluia! Victory and glory and power to our God! He judges fairly, he punishes justly, and he has condemned the famous prostitute who corrupted the earth with her fornication; he has avenged his servants that she killed.' ...Then a voice came from the throne and said, 'Praise our God, you servants of his and all who, great or small, revere him."

The connection is transparent, and the same words are used to refer to Babylon the Great's fornication: ephtheiren ten gen "defiled the earth". The description of Babylon the Great's sin as "fornication" seems to be inspired by Lev. 18, which explicitly describes FORNICATION as "defiling the land." Most scholars interpret Babylon as referring to Rome (made clear in ch. 17 which in the details perfectly fits Rome), and Rome's sin was twofold: persecution of Christians (the killing of the servants) and pagan idolatry (prostitution symbolizes idolatry in Ezekiel 16 and 23 and Hosea 1:2; cf. Rev. 14:4 where those "who have kept their virginity and not been defiled" are those who "follow the Lamb wherever he goes"). Rome is thus guilty of a double crime, idolatry (17:4) and murder (17:6), exactly the same as Jerusalem (Ezekiel 16:36-38 and 23:37-45), and Rome's fall would mimic that of Jerusalem's. What Revelation is hoping for is divine punishment on Rome for its sins, and not any first-century "ecological pollution".

So I hope I have shown that the WTS' interpretation of Rev. 11:18 as referring to ecological pollution is not supported by the facts.

Leolaia

metatron

YES!! You are beautiful! Exactly so!

Amen!

metatron

Loris

" He said: "Look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am he,' and, 'The due time has approached.' Do not go after them" Luke 21:8

How many times have the WT said "The Time is at Hand"? (title of one of Russell's books)

If you do a search of the phrase 'Last Days' you can pretty much figure out that they were referring to the Temple Era being in it's last days.

Archangel01 Regardless of what the author of the 'Left Behind' series has written, you will not get away unscathed. Read and re-read Daniel 7:21-25 and Matthew 24:29-31 until it sinks in.

Matt 24 Dan 7

1) Tribulation 1) Harrassment of holy ones

2)Celesial darkness 2)Holy ones given into the hands of the harrassers

3)Sign of the Son of Man

4)Earth-wide lamentation

5)Son of Man visible on the clouds 3)Ancient of Days coming

6)Gathering of the 'Chosen Ones' 4)Ancient of Days deliver the Holy Ones

But no stress. Just "Be Excellent to each other" as Bill and Ted said. We do not know when it is all going down. Jesus said it wasn't our business to know. It is out of our hands. Our job is to just be nice.

Loris

heathen

I think those that ruin the earth could also be greedy industrialists , corrupt governments and religionists that oppose christianity such as in the middle east . I don't think that revelations was written about rome but about future events that would take place before the end of the world as we know it .

Guest 77

The understanding that I have, which I've already stated is, it must be set on a global or international scale. My question is, when has mother earth ever experienced such a global pollution on an international scale, when?

Guest 77

City Fan

Heathen

I don't think that revelations was written about rome but about future events

I can't see how Babylon the Great at Revelation 17:9,18 can be anything but Rome. "The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman is sitting; And the woman that you saw is herself the great city which dominates and controls the rulers and the leaders of the earth." (Amplified bible)

The writers of books such as Daniel and Revelation thought they were living in the last days.

metatron

Earth has experienced ENORMOUS ENVIRONMENTAL destruction and pollution in the past!!!!!!!!! Beyond our imagining!

Our planet is littered with rounded lakes that were formed by asteroids or comets wacking into the earth and causing

tremendous destruction! This was discovered by satellite photography and analysis of underlying bedrock.

When these things happened ( again and again and again and again), huge areas became polluted with ash

and smoke from enormous fires. Each time a large object hits the earth, a huge burst of X-rays is given off because

of the enormity of kinetic energy released. The slaughter of plants and animals was unimaginable. Don't take my

word for it - read Earth in Upheaval by Velikovsky ( forget his theories, just read his sources). There were rivers

and mountains filled with broken bones and bodies piled high. Imagine the global warming! The CO2 levels!

WE HAVE IT EASY!!! .... and please READ the above posts about why Rev. 11:8 DOESN'T apply!

metatron

The "Critical Times" Con-Game - Dec. 15 Watchtower

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