Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow (page 7)

cofty

A government that falls short of its moral principles is one thing. A government that has absolutely none is something else entirely - TD

^^^ This ^^^

humbled

I had completely agreed with THAT^^^^.

TD indeed said it well.

If l said- and l did say- there are echoes of these things in this country ‘s covert and sometimes overt actions it is a cause for concern and criticism. You think letting a world power on automatic pilot is a fine thing? Do you truly believe “my country, right or wrong”? Loyalty in some measure—sometimes loyal opposition.

We have a training camp in Fort Benning, Georgia. It used to be called School of the Americas until it received so much bad press for its graduates becoming dictators and violent subversive militarist in South America. Now it is renamed WHINSEC ( can’t recall the full name. Even having such knowing the many, many human rights abusers and murderers that have learned their trade at this institute from it does not mean l equate this country to Stalinist Russia. I have not done that at all. But we have to take care to push back against these things.

Ratchet your rhetoric down a notch or two, cofty. You are way too caustic.

cofty

Do you truly believe “my country, right or wrong”?

As usual an internet conversation quickly becomes distorted into something like - "You disagreed with me therefore you obviously take an extreme opposite position."

humbled

Not an extreme position, l am trying to understand your extreme reaction. I am certainly not a poser in pretending a view that l don’t genuinely feel and very actively work for. Broke as l am l journeyed to New Hampshire before the presidential primaries ,hiking from Dublin, NH to the state capital in an organized effort to get those first citizens in the presidential race to ask THE QUESTION: What are you going to duty in the corruption influence of big money in presidential elections? I have worked here . I live near a homeless center and in a trailer court with people who have felony convictions. Three of my brothers served in the military. My best friend from high school .l weigh these issues. I value their lives. I try to do what l can.

I care about this country. The gravest problem a good man, woman or nation can have is to become above reproach. Fortunately that isn’t a problem for me. And l will try to be sure it is never a problem for you either, cofty.

cofty

Our freedom to criticise our governments proves your comparison with Stalinism is facile.

humbled

I can dream politics and if l like, talk about my dreams no one throws me in a gulag. I am tired of saying that l am not making s “thing” of the US = Stalin’s Russia.And we can vote freely. But big money corrupts the process . l can flap my gums forever in complaint and it effects no change no matter what l dream. But you better not. name a name or a problem that threatens a person’s or organization’s money by exposing deep corruption in government.

A few years ago the U.K. had an Arkansas man, Kelly Duda, testify at an inquiry over the tainted blood scandal that killed or infected hundreds of your citizens. The same as happened in Canada and in Japan. Hemophiliacs had various diseases notably HIV and Hep C among others. The young film maker has inadvertently come across a widespread practice in Arkansas prisons of letting prisoners “bleed” got a small cash payment while unnamed persons in the state made off with the big money. The prisoners drew blood from one another with no attempt to screen for disease. Thus the horror.

Mr. Duda traced the money trail to the door of power had things happen to him in filming that made him stop his investigation. The film is not distributed now . It is called “Factor 8: the Arkansas Prison Blood Scandal” you will find interviews with Duda. But he was scared off and YouTube doesn’t have any links to the documentary.

Neither is it easy to find the book written of the one serious attempt at prison reform in this State. 1968 was when the reformer, Tom Murton literally dug up the murdered remains of murdered inmates, he was told he must leave the state or be thrown in prison himself for grave robbing. He learned his life was threatened as well. He had 72 hours to clear out.

You can believe me or not, but the Arkansas prison system is a going business in this state as much because of the corruption that has never been rooted out from over 50 years ago and beyond. I have personal knowledge/experience of the extortion that reaches out from the prison organizations with complicit correctional officers. I am literally too terrified to say more in this forum because my own identity and those of family members are too exposed.

I am not the only one this happened to. You absolutely don’t know who to trust , who or how to complain.

Big Money. If you are poor you pay and you shut up. But you can complain about the government . You can vote. But don’t rock the boat . Not really.

I hope to rattle cages by coming at the problem with “ A Child’s History of Arkansas Prisons” hoping that even if there is only contempt for the vulnerable communities of addicts, ex-cons and their struggling families, maybe folks will care about the pathological impact of the incarceration rate on Arkansas children—And start to wonder why things only get worse in spite of the empty political rhetoric l have charted over the years— talk about moral posers.

well this is a thoroughly hijacked thread. And l suddenly feel really exposed.

goodnight

Ruby456

goodnight humbled you bring some objectivity to these issues - there are people who cannot do this, just be aware of this. Stalinism wasn't that different to what the USA and Britain have done and there is moral equivalence here despite what TD and others may say. It is like the pot calling the kettle black.

edit: come over to futureLearn if you have time to spare.

slimboyfat

A regime that is secure in its position doesn’t need to be brutal. It’s when it is insecure that it becomes violent and repressive. Stable western regimes outsource repression and brutality to the periphery of the system. Hence Britain and America detain and torture people in the Middle East, Africa and Guantanamo bay, rather than at home. They outlaw slavery at home but source products from countries where workers are slaves in all but name. The repression and suffering of a capitalist system are just as real, but are more effectively kept out of sight. Stalin ordered the deaths of those around him. The president orders the deaths of strangers across the world by drone. One we call barbarism, the other we call defending civilisation.

Ruby456

And if we are stuck in a 19th century Victorian mindset - which to me is to feel one has the moral high ground while raping and pillaging other nations in the empire is hidden away - then al least be honest about it or at least don't try to silence others by means of trying to occupy this moral high ground

edit: okay yes that is how we have been taught to be - but then how do we learn to be different?

Terry is on the money Imo with his op. So let's stay on topic. Slim you also have a strong argument and I do not see you as escaping into relativity but as recognising that reality is made up of complex facts not simple good guys and bad guys that are easily identified. I think it is possible to come out with a coherent argument and avoid relativity but we would need to bring many facts together not just one or two to determine what is moral or ethical.

Humbled also presents facts about how big money taints life and her arguments are worth thinking over. There are many others on this thread too so lets go back and take another look

slimboyfat

Some people are relativists, and other people hate relativism. Honestly, I can see it both ways.

Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow

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