A pet project of mine has been to check all the WT quotes in their "science type" publications (I really had to put that in "" quotes --- Science/Watchtower -- that is like heaven and hell - they are so far apart and yes I know there is no hell. The WTBTS are nmasters at selective quotation -- in my opinion totally dishonest. It will be interesting to see wah tthey quote in another 20 years time. Some of their old references are indeed laughable.
Evolution Question(s)
by Cassiline 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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A Paduan
Therefore beware, and drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean, for lo, you shall conceive and bear a son................... And the woman bore a son, and called his name Samson...........................he loved a woman in the valley of Sorek, whose name was Deli'lah.
One example of choices made by people that are physically able.
The weak and infirm have different experiences of life and so share with us their wisdom and friendship, and allow us to evolve in other ways.
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peacefulpete
Very nice discussion everyone. Alan..I have to disgree in priciple about the statement that changes in head size is not evolution. Of course nutrition and disease issues can stunt normal genetic expression, yet a healthy semi-isolated small population can easily and rather quickly in a few thousands (maybe hundreds) of years asssume unique physical characteristics. Long noses, dark hair, tall stature, immunity to a strain of virus, can and are observed as allopatric evolution in such short timespans. Being that humans generally are not fussy about who they mate with these spikes in the genetic median generally get lost in the wash. Humans have because of our recent arrival as a species, our mobility, adaptability, and stong social instincts have very little true genetic variety in our population. It was said that the snails on two adjacent hills have more genetic variation between them than the entire human race.
A program on Discovery a few months back revealed the social structure of a wild African dog. They had evolved social instincts that rival our own. For instance if a dog is injured on the hunt, rather than be eaten by the rest of the pack these assumed a responsible role as babysitters for the pack's pups when the adults went out or a kill. Then evn more interestingly the baby sitters were brought food in reward for their contribution. This behavior has not been observed in other dogs species. How did this social sense of respect and compassion evolve? Simply stated IT WORKED. Dogs with stronger social instincts and bonding survived in the environment that was hash and too much for loner dogs. The convergence of perhaps dozens of subtle psychological patterns resulted in a new and useful social structure. This means that the process of evolution works not only on the visible body but on the mental makeup as well. This is posssible because who we are psychologically is determined in a large way by our psysiology. This is called Evolutionary Psychology when it is studied in humans. And this is why we think and act in socially responsible ways. ( of course as selfishness has it's rewards at times of great hardship that instinct is competeing with the social ones) What makes us different from the dogs is our accute self awareness and intelligence. This now puts us in control to some extent of what instinct we will listen too. Also we AS a Society can by convention and sanction compell even those differently inclined to conform to societal standards and opinions. This then introduces the role of culture in evolution.
The newly recognised evolution that takes place nongentically has been called Memenic Evolution. Meme being short for memory. And this is a catch word for the ways and ideas that shape our perceptions that we pass on thru imitation or communication. In many ways it works on the same priciples as genetic evolution, descent with modification ( in this case no two cultures, families, or individuals think in exactly the same way) and survival of the fittest (in this case ,beneficial technologies, philosohies, and preferances will outshine and prevail, spreading to other cultures,families , and individuals). What I find intriguing is the interplay these forms of evolution have. For instance a cultural emphasis on athleticism naturally effects the sexual selection of mates. Stronger taller indviduals will be more successful at finding mates than short weak ones. Even if most short weak ones do manage to find partners (say 97 out of a hundred), statistically viewed they will be disadvantaged in the long term against a strong tall group than is successful at mating 98 out a hundred times. This means memetic forces are shaping gentic evolution perhaps as much as environmental pressures. Of course cultures change and mingle with other cultures so this effect works best in isolated groups. Like Scandanavia (tall blond blue eyed).
Conversely what we often assume are simply memenic pressures (like men preferring blondes) may in fact be rooted in gentics. Youth is critical for successful breeding. The more youthful appearing a woman is the more attractive she is (generally speaking as other influences also shape a concept as complicated as "attractive") Tow hair is associated with youth. Many children are blonde until later whent the hair darkens. This may then explain our instinctive reaction to a blond, she represents good breeding material to our genes and our minds evolved under situations when even a slight advantage in breeding success (she gave me 8 kids and 4 survived to breed, my genetic competitor had only 7 kids before his mate became menopausal of the 7 only 3 survived to breed) meant our genes being perpetuated rather than fading away.
There is no worry about evolution stopping. Likely humans will alter their environment so much that isolation of small groups will be the result. Evolution will get a kick start. Also the facts are that our planet is changing once again. In a few hundred thousand years the land masses will look very different due to rising oceans, the climate changed. Genetic drift is always at work albeit slowly in large populations. Genetic engineering is real and will be a factor in the future. Perhaps we will need it to survive in a world with toxic CO levels. -
Leolaia
I saw a very interesting lecture on a college lecture channel on genetic variation and evolution. The geneticist explained the interrelationship between skin color, UV radiation, folic acid, and Vitamin D. There is a direct correlation between skin color and latitude that relates to a tension between protection against UV and the necessary production of folic acid. She said that it takes about 10,000 to turn a population from white to black or vice versa....so by 12,000 AD white Aussies should be about as dark as their aboriginal brethren. She also gave another great example: sickle-cell anemia, which has a high incidence in Africa and certain other third world countries. That sounds like a terrible plight, but it actually is an advantageous adaptation. You see, biologically anemia is a protection against malaria which is the worse of the two evils in those lands. The mosquito-borne virus is unable to bind with the sickle-shaped cells. When these populations move into a land without malaria, anemia is no longer advantageous, just as light skin color is no longer advantageous in hot latitudes. Now any one of these situations may alter gene selection and produce change in genetic variation, but this is not the same as speciation which requires some sort of reproductive barrier, either extrinsic (like physical barriers that separate populations) or intrinsic (like mate selection). That is why space seems to be a possible candidate as a niche for future human speciation because it poses both a set of new ecological challenges and physical separation in gene pools (as well as a sort of founder's effect) -- Leolaia
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Abaddon
Leolaia: I'm enjoying your posts.
As a general recommendation for people wishing to get a good overview of the current sate-of-paly regarding human evolutionary theory, I;d recommend the Scientific American of May this year that deveoted the entire issue to the subject - they touch on the skin colouration issue amongst others.
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outbutnotdown
WOW!!!!!! This post is fascinating. The information is great. Thanks to all those who have taken the time to write it all down for us.
It makes me want to go and hug my kids before they are too tall for me to do so properly. Actually, I just feel like going to hug my kids for no good reason other than it makes me feel good. That in itself seems to be a step up the evolutionary ladder of even a generation ago.... that's gotta be a good thing.....
Brad
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peacefulpete
I'll second that. The new posters Leolaia and Narkissos are making a great contribution to the board. Please don't leave anytime soon.
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Leolaia
Thank you! I'm actually have been posting for over a year, but I tend to take very looooooong breaks.
Leolaia
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Valis
If we had allowed natural selection to take place how much different would this planet be?
IMO natural selection is happening all the time...whether or not we make all the right choices involving the environment, genetically altering animals and humans, curing more diseases etc....we are doing what comes natural to us. Oh and also starving out millions of people in places like Africa and elsewhere....perhaps dreaming of the next location for a WalMart or new prison complex, or maybe even some nice third world beachfront property...Mean I know, but still one of the things we humans seem to excel at.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
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rem
: Technology may render strength irrelevant for survival, but you forget the importance of physical attractiveness. There may be reproductive barriers to the evolution of "more feeble" humans.
I dunno... it seems to me that ugly people reproduce like rabbits. :)
rem